Is Homogeneity Of Membership Good Or Bad?

[Hall2012]

I totally understand this line of reasoning and I agree with you, especially the bolded part.

What I will say is often overlooked in these discussions is the actual money being invested in basketball. A great coach can overcome some financial disadvantages, but if a school is in that boat you're banking on making great hires every time. VCU was lucky in that they have been very good in the hiring process dating back to guys like Capel & Grant when they weren't at the level they are now. Where they have taken off since their Final Four run is that they made a long-term commitment to providing the necessary resources to stay on top of the A-10.

They have paid some of the highest (if not THE highest) salaries in the A-10, they built a $25 million basketball development center, and they have committed to improving the program in other ways, like increased recruiting budgets.

It's pretty clear that they'd make the necessary financial investment to keep up in the Big East if that were the case.

I absolutely get that and I in no way question VCU's commitment to its basketball program. I do not in any way expect that VCU would be a perennial bottom feeder in the Big East. However, I don't think they'll be annually batting it out with Nova at the top either. I'd expect VCU to mostly bounce between 3 and 8 with an occasional top 2 or bottom 2 finish, usually close to the bubble, sometimes getting in, sometimes getting left out. Basically on par with the majority of the league. It's not a question of their commitment and ability to compete.

But in that light, I also wonder what's better for VCU. Life as an up-and-down, middle of the road Big East team? Or life as an A10 flag bearer? Certainly the up years in the Big East would be fantastic, but they won't have the luxury of being an NCAA Tourney candidate in the majority of their down years as well. For example, I don't think VCU had one of its better teams this year and I'm not sure they'd have gotten a bid out of the BE.

[GoldenWarrior11]

Yeah Val is defiantly paying attention to the that league for sure. AAAAAACCCCC is the greatest conference of all time and will continue to push the narrative that its a P6 conference

#AmericanPow6r

[GoldenWarrior11]

What they said^^^^

Deem us as worthy because were human, nothing else

Accolades

Naismith student section of the year winner 2013.The Rowdy Rams outlasted the remaining candidates including Gonzaga, Illinois, Indiana, Kansas, Pitt, Purdue.

http://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/ncaa-tournament-ranking-the-25-best-march-madness-cinderella-stories/

[url]
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men ... ball-towns[/url]

Tell us more why you think VCU should be included in the Big East. It will only add to our humor as to why it won't happen...

[Dwon]

This is what they're scared of.Americas team, ya better get used to it

[DudeAnon]

So what are the odds of VCU actually making the tournament this year? 50%? A-10 could be a 1-bid league this year.

[butlerguy03]

This is what they're scared of.Americas team, ya better get used to it

That's nice. You found 5 photos - only 2 of them even attended college and 0 went to VCU.

[H.U.S.T.L.E.]

So what are the odds of VCU actually making the tournament this year? 50%? A-10 could be a 1-bid league this year.

I actually think the A-10 will end up with 2 or 3 bids again. Yes, Dayton will be down after losing 4 seniors who were big contributors, but I think Rhode Island should be good again with EC Matthews coming back. I'm suspecting we might see St. Bonaventure bounce back to tourney contender, and I like VCU's chances again.

VCU's non-conference schedule should allow them to collect some scalps. They're in the Maui Invitational with LSU (likely they'll schedule this considering Wade just bolted Richmond for Baton Rouge - NARRATIVE!), Cal, Marquette, Michigan, Notre Dame, Wichita State and Chaminade. They've also got UVA and Texas at home and those are winnable matchups with teams likely to be better at the end of the year after pieces have been integrated.

[gtmoBlue]

As the Big East charts its course for the future, I hope that vision evolves.

a) It seems like there is a strand of anti-publics emanating throughout these threads, pertaining to expansion, and I'm not seeing it. Every good conference in the country makes a point to have that signature 'private' school in their ranks. Why do you think that is? Would the SEC be better if they kicked out Vandy and added a public? What would they gain by that?

b) There is a lot of crossing of streams in this discussion. Many promote UConn, even though they are public and have football, on one hand, and then - otoh - they say they want to never let any other public OR football playing member in the conference. VCU doesn't even have fbs football, and they're considered behind UConn in the pecking order. That makes absolutely no sense. Let's be honest with ourselves, UConn is not coming (especially after todays upcoming events), so why waste the bandwidth?

c)Is Wichita State a trial run for the AAC, setting the table for VCU and Dayton later? Would they consider Dayton, being that they don't resemble most of the membership? I believe they would. They would be foolish not to. So, why is that same foolishness promoted around here. As an original Big East fan, I miss Syracuse, Pitt, UConn, Louisville, and even West Virginia. Outside of having football, I thought they were perfect conference mates for schools like St. Johns, Villanova, Providence, etc. It's our differences that fueled our competition. Frankly, it feels weird not having a taste of it.
Would VCU be the same? No. But, I'd enjoy playing them as much as most. This is still a very new conference. I'm still getting used to Creighton, Butler, and Xavier. Maybe VCU could be the token Public, like Vandy is the SEC's token Private.

d) My point is its good to have a blend. If this conference does expand, I think its extremely weird to narrow the pool with a religious litmus test. I can see both the AAC and Big East considering both VCU and Dayton for expansion in the future. It is my opinion that the conference who asks second is going to be very sorry.

e) Wichita State is a Top 5 team next year. I will be following their program with intrigue. Just as I'll be following the 15 team ACC, with Notre Dame, Syracuse, Pitt, West Virginia, etc, knowing that one day the Big East will need to grow out of necessity someday, and that Private-Public dynamic will be a menu offering that must be considered to get some of what was lost back.

Replies:
a) Agree there appears to be an anti-public undercurrent on the board. Perhaps due to the all-private current configuration of the conference and the obsession with the temporary 10-team, round robin setup. Other conferences have a private school in their midst from way back...primarily as a token school.

You my friend seem a bit obsessed with religion. I submit to you and the others lobbying for midmajors, that the Private aspect of the BE criteria is the sticking point, not religious affiliation. Privacy will continue to be a key factor until the next football five shakeup and perhaps a few ff major teams become available. I am surprised that neither SLU nor Dayton made the cut and Creighton got in. It was said that Creighton's consistency was what got them accepted back in 2013.

b) Agree with your points under b) wholeheartedly. The fanbase, as viewed by the sampling evidenced on this board is schizophrenic. A lot of luv for a UConn team that probably will never show up.

c) Being a recent member, I don't share your hindsighted fondness for the schools who deserted the BE. However, I see where the mix (in the past) was beneficial for interest, rivalries, tv, etc. ND and S'cuse are 2 teams Everyone loves to hate - the TDJesus' are an arrogant bunch and S'cuse (the cheaters) have a large, loyal, and condescending group of fans. It would be good to have both back in the conference as both "move the basketball needle", while little VCU doesn't. The BE will add a couple of high major football five public schools after the next ff realignment.

d) Agree that a blend is best. Dayton didn't make the cut last time - the Flyers are not gonna pass muster next time and VCU doesn't add enough for consideration. Both should go to the AAC as both appear SOL as Big East candidates. The privacy (not religious) aspect of the criteria will remain until a "big fish" football five candidate becomes available.

e) Growth out of necessity and recapturing lost items are NOT part of the current criteria and such posturing is a total waste of energy and resources. Many here already advocate such a ridiculous position - mainly out of love for their sacred "Round Robin" format, a smug sense of "perfection", and fear.

I resubmit to the fans on this board and other related boards, to anyone from the League office (who may browse here), and to you and other advocates for potential candidates: The Big East should expand, and expand now from a position of strength and prosperity. The BE should expand now and pick up the successful, consistent, and high profile Gonzaga team...along with one (1) potential up and comer such as Duquesne, Boston U, St. Bonaventure, St. Louis, or other suitable private university. Go to a 12 team configuration now. Then hold and wait for a couple of ff dissidents / leftovers after the next round of football turmoil (whenever that may occur).

[xusandy]

OMIGOD -- not another thread with folks touting the admission of their favorite public university to the league. Hey guys, we've been over this before again and again and again ad nauseum. You can post all you want to about your favorite public (UConn, Wichita, and more recently VCU lovers have been most active), but there is no way at all that we'll ever ever ever admit one. (1) Financial reporting rules change if/when a public institution joins the league, and nobody wants to have to report hard numbers to the NCAA. (2) Institutional "fit" is a very real factor in the minds of the decision makers here (administrations and boards), though sometimes not in the minds of alums and fans. We fans do not drive the bus; FOX and ESPN are indeed influencers, but they do not drive the bus either, and they never will (at least not in my lifetime -- but then I only expect to live another 25 years or so.)

Among the potentially available privates, and in their approximate order of likelihood: St. Louis, Gonzaga, Duquesne, St. Mary's, BU, and an ACC also-ran that gives up football (BC, Syracuse, or Wake) seem most likely to me, though all for different reasons. But as always when we talk about BEAST expansion, the bottom line is .... IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. I am so tired of going through all this AGAIN. I suggest that none of us who regularly post here get sucked into yet another stupid debate about why we ought to admit a public university.

[Savannah Jay]

OMIGOD -- not another thread with folks touting the admission of their favorite public university to the league. Hey guys, we've been over this before again and again and again ad nauseum. You can post all you want to about your favorite public (UConn, Wichita, and more recently VCU lovers have been most active), but there is no way at all that we'll ever ever ever admit one. (1) Financial reporting rules change if/when a public institution joins the league, and nobody wants to have to report hard numbers to the NCAA. (2) Institutional "fit" is a very real factor in the minds of the decision makers here (administrations and boards), though sometimes not in the minds of alums and fans. We fans do not drive the bus; FOX and ESPN are indeed influencers, but they do not drive the bus either, and they never will (at least not in my lifetime -- but then I only expect to live another 25 years or so.)

Among the potentially available privates, and in their approximate order of likelihood: St. Louis, Gonzaga, Duquesne, St. Mary's, BU, and an ACC also-ran that gives up football (BC, Syracuse, or Wake) seem most likely to me, though all for different reasons. But as always when we talk about BEAST expansion, the bottom line is .... IF IT AIN'T BROKE, DON'T FIX IT. I am so tired of going through all this AGAIN. I suggest that none of us who regularly post here get sucked into yet another stupid debate about why we ought to admit a public university.

Mostly my sentiments...especially "OMG not another realignment thread." I almost started another one simply to amuse myself (no one else would have been amused).

The super-conferences are all fat and happy (actually, I'd say they are content more than happy) now because there is plenty of money to go around. But for most of them, the bond that holds them together is money. And that's fine as long as there is plenty of money and everyone is happy with their share of the money. But at some point, the money dynamics will change. Greed and changing "sports watching economy" will most certainly change the money dynamics of sports, if taxpayers don't get fed up with the amount of money being thrown into athletics at public institutions first. And then what?

I believe the big conferences will implode before the Big East expands.