(3) Big East Games- Wed. 2/14/17

[SJUBBALL]

I did point out that Nova played/shot well against X and CU. It's not a grouping. The cats shot and played far worse vs StJ & Prov. Contrary to sensitive folks - it is fact, not a demeaning slight against your team. No one is putting Prov down, merely making an observation about Nova. Yes, Prov has won once vs them all, but Nova was leading the conference.

Not to take anything away from St John’s and how they played against Nova, but the Wildcats were down 2 starters in that game, forcing DiVincenzo into the starting lineup and weakening the bench. He and the 3 regular starters each logged 35-38 minutes against St John’s. Collin Gillespie, who normally plays less than 15 minutes, played 30.

1) if you wanna play that game, how about mentioning Lovett, our starting point guard, who has been gone for months now

2) oh poor Nova, they had to start DiVincenzo, who plays like Kevin Durant when he faces SJU for some reason


gimme a break... "not to take anything away from st johns, but I'm gonna take something away from st johns"

[Bill Marsh]

I did point out that Nova played/shot well against X and CU. It's not a grouping. The cats shot and played far worse vs StJ & Prov. Contrary to sensitive folks - it is fact, not a demeaning slight against your team. No one is putting Prov down, merely making an observation about Nova. Yes, Prov has won once vs them all, but Nova was leading the conference.

Not to take anything away from St John’s and how they played against Nova, but the Wildcats were down 2 starters in that game, forcing DiVincenzo into the starting lineup and weakening the bench. He and the 3 regular starters each logged 35-38 minutes against St John’s. Collin Gillespie, who normally plays less than 15 minutes, played 30.

1) if you wanna play that game, how about mentioning Lovett, our starting point guard, who has been gone for months now

I have mentioned his loss in other posts. I think his loss has had a lot to do with St John’s losing streak. St John’s is a good team which was never as bad as that streak made them appear. They had to figure out how to win without LoVett and they appear to have finally done that.

2) oh poor Nova, they had to start DiVincenzo, who plays like Kevin Durant when he faces SJU for some reason

Nothing wrong with starting DiVincenzo, who is a very good player, one who belongs in a starting lineup. The issue is how their depth has been reduced. Depth was one of the things that made them so formidable. When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that.

gimme a break... "not to take anything away from st johns, but I'm gonna take something away from st johns"

Okay, I’ll give you a break. St John’s deserves all the credit for both the Villanova win and the Duke win. I like this St John’s team and think they’ll be a factor for the rest of the season, a team that’s capable of going on a run in the BE tournament and winning the automatic big. You think I’m making excuses for Villanova at St John’s expense. I’m not. There’s a difference between analysis and disparagement.

Cheers.

[NJRedman]

[Bill Marsh]

That’s the way to think.

[adoraz]

record does mean a lot. For one, I'm not even sure they actually consider teams with losing records..... an interesting comp to St John's is Florida in 2015. They were 16-17 and had a RPI of 70. KP of 35. saw a story about that and according to the story about Florida missing in 2015, they said that no team in NIT history has ever finished with a sub .500 record regular season. http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/colle ... 37783.html (just looking last 2 years, that's still the case) Now, that's a bit unfair IMO as there was a rule on the books until the 2006 tourney not allowing that. But still, that's 12 years with no losing team ever making it. Pretty fair precedent I'd say.

but also even if they do. 15-15 going into the BET would be a RPI of around 67. Add to that a home loss to DePaul most likely in the BET, and that would drop it to around 75-80. Using the RPI wizard on RPI forecast, giving St John's wins @ Marquette and home vs Butler- losses home to Seton Hall and @ Providence, then losing to Georgetown/Marquette loser 1st rd of BET- projects RPI to be 78 with #7/60 SOS. st john's would have RPI of 78 and a KP around 70. just winning that and losing to Xavier say- puts their RPI up to 64. Yes, that huge of a difference.

also while last year had only 9 teams who got in to the NIT due to winning regular season conference then losing in conference tourney, the year before had 15 teams that did that. The number of NIT bid thieves(those at the lower end of things based off of seeding) has been pretty much 9. This year has had more parity than in years past so I think it's very easy to say there could be a lot more bid thieves than normal.

1 major thing is that the BET does count as home game, so 1.4 losses for St John's to only 0.6 wins. So using RPI wizard giving them best case- 17-13 then a loss to Creighton in QF- that puts the RPI at 52 with #4 SOS. Would be really fringe bubble I think- and would be a pretty recent historical selection record wise. now putting it as beating DePaul and losing to Nova in QF, still 52 RPI with a 5 SOS. So quite possibly needs to make SF of BET to make the tourney with winning out regular season.

Fair points. I still think they'd make it, but hopefully they win more than 2 games and we won't need to find out.

[stever20]

record does mean a lot. For one, I'm not even sure they actually consider teams with losing records..... an interesting comp to St John's is Florida in 2015. They were 16-17 and had a RPI of 70. KP of 35. saw a story about that and according to the story about Florida missing in 2015, they said that no team in NIT history has ever finished with a sub .500 record regular season. http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/colle ... 37783.html (just looking last 2 years, that's still the case) Now, that's a bit unfair IMO as there was a rule on the books until the 2006 tourney not allowing that. But still, that's 12 years with no losing team ever making it. Pretty fair precedent I'd say.

but also even if they do. 15-15 going into the BET would be a RPI of around 67. Add to that a home loss to DePaul most likely in the BET, and that would drop it to around 75-80. Using the RPI wizard on RPI forecast, giving St John's wins @ Marquette and home vs Butler- losses home to Seton Hall and @ Providence, then losing to Georgetown/Marquette loser 1st rd of BET- projects RPI to be 78 with #7/60 SOS. st john's would have RPI of 78 and a KP around 70. just winning that and losing to Xavier say- puts their RPI up to 64. Yes, that huge of a difference.

also while last year had only 9 teams who got in to the NIT due to winning regular season conference then losing in conference tourney, the year before had 15 teams that did that. The number of NIT bid thieves(those at the lower end of things based off of seeding) has been pretty much 9. This year has had more parity than in years past so I think it's very easy to say there could be a lot more bid thieves than normal.

1 major thing is that the BET does count as home game, so 1.4 losses for St John's to only 0.6 wins. So using RPI wizard giving them best case- 17-13 then a loss to Creighton in QF- that puts the RPI at 52 with #4 SOS. Would be really fringe bubble I think- and would be a pretty recent historical selection record wise. now putting it as beating DePaul and losing to Nova in QF, still 52 RPI with a 5 SOS. So quite possibly needs to make SF of BET to make the tourney with winning out regular season.

Fair points. I still think they'd make it, but hopefully they win more than 2 games and we won't need to find out.

If St John's in the Big East wins out and Temple wins enough- those 2 teams are going to give the committee more headaches than almost any other team they've faced in a long time. St John's could wind up with 3 tier 3/4 losses and Temple with 4. But St John's with wins over current RPI top 3 and 5 teams, and Temple with wins over current RPI top 4 and 6 teams. How does the committee sift thru that easily?

It's funny, if St John's does finish 2-2, I'd say Wed. game with Marquette is the big one because Marquette would be a team they're competing with for the NIT slots..

[Bill Marsh]

record does mean a lot. For one, I'm not even sure they actually consider teams with losing records..... an interesting comp to St John's is Florida in 2015. They were 16-17 and had a RPI of 70. KP of 35. saw a story about that and according to the story about Florida missing in 2015, they said that no team in NIT history has ever finished with a sub .500 record regular season. http://www.miamiherald.com/sports/colle ... 37783.html (just looking last 2 years, that's still the case) Now, that's a bit unfair IMO as there was a rule on the books until the 2006 tourney not allowing that. But still, that's 12 years with no losing team ever making it. Pretty fair precedent I'd say.

but also even if they do. 15-15 going into the BET would be a RPI of around 67. Add to that a home loss to DePaul most likely in the BET, and that would drop it to around 75-80. Using the RPI wizard on RPI forecast, giving St John's wins @ Marquette and home vs Butler- losses home to Seton Hall and @ Providence, then losing to Georgetown/Marquette loser 1st rd of BET- projects RPI to be 78 with #7/60 SOS. st john's would have RPI of 78 and a KP around 70. just winning that and losing to Xavier say- puts their RPI up to 64. Yes, that huge of a difference.

also while last year had only 9 teams who got in to the NIT due to winning regular season conference then losing in conference tourney, the year before had 15 teams that did that. The number of NIT bid thieves(those at the lower end of things based off of seeding) has been pretty much 9. This year has had more parity than in years past so I think it's very easy to say there could be a lot more bid thieves than normal.

1 major thing is that the BET does count as home game, so 1.4 losses for St John's to only 0.6 wins. So using RPI wizard giving them best case- 17-13 then a loss to Creighton in QF- that puts the RPI at 52 with #4 SOS. Would be really fringe bubble I think- and would be a pretty recent historical selection record wise. now putting it as beating DePaul and losing to Nova in QF, still 52 RPI with a 5 SOS. So quite possibly needs to make SF of BET to make the tourney with winning out regular season.

Fair points. I still think they'd make it, but hopefully they win more than 2 games and we won't need to find out.

If St John's in the Big East wins out and Temple wins enough- those 2 teams are going to give the committee more headaches than almost any other team they've faced in a long time. St John's could wind up with 3 tier 3/4 losses and Temple with 4. But St John's with wins over current RPI top 3 and 5 teams, and Temple with wins over current RPI top 4 and 6 teams. How does the committee sift thru that easily?

It's funny, if St John's does finish 2-2, I'd say Wed. game with Marquette is the big one because Marquette would be a team they're competing with for the NIT slots..

The smart money is on St John’s winning 3 of their last 4. Winning out is definitely a possibility.

[REDMEN1415]

Bill Marsh wrote:

"Nothing wrong with starting DiVincenzo, who is a very good player, one who belongs in a starting lineup. The issue is how their depth has been reduced. Depth was one of the things that made them so formidable. When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

So if anything, Villanova losing two guys made it a more even matchup. SJU has 5 B.E. players and Trimble. Yakwe is hardly used, and leave Amar on the bench the rest of the year please, unless it's a blowout either way. Teams losing depth vs. SJU shouldn't be an issue since we have no depth.

When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

That's what SJU's been going through since Lovett quit, so why all the crying?

[Bill Marsh]

Bill Marsh wrote:

"Nothing wrong with starting DiVincenzo, who is a very good player, one who belongs in a starting lineup. The issue is how their depth has been reduced. Depth was one of the things that made them so formidable. When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

So if anything, Villanova losing two guys made it a more even matchup. SJU has 5 B.E. players and Trimble. Yakwe is hardly used, and leave Amar on the bench the rest of the year please, unless it's a blowout either way. Teams losing depth vs. SJU shouldn't be an issue since we have no depth.

And once Villanova had no depth either, they were on equal footing.

When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

That's what SJU's been going through since Lovett quit, so why all the crying?

Who’s crying?

As you say, LoVett’s loss was costly for St John’s, turning a team which began the season with a hot start into one that lost 11 in a row. Why would you think that the loss of depth wouldn’t also have an impact on Villanova?

[REDMEN1415]

Bill Marsh wrote:

"Nothing wrong with starting DiVincenzo, who is a very good player, one who belongs in a starting lineup. The issue is how their depth has been reduced. Depth was one of the things that made them so formidable. When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

So if anything, Villanova losing two guys made it a more even matchup. SJU has 5 B.E. players and Trimble. Yakwe is hardly used, and leave Amar on the bench the rest of the year please, unless it's a blowout either way. Teams losing depth vs. SJU shouldn't be an issue since we have no depth.

And once Villanova had no depth either, they were on equal footing.

When a team can bring in a kid like DiVincenzo off the bench when starters are beginning to tire or to be replaced by lesser players, that’s a back breaker. Villanova lost that."

That's what SJU's been going through since Lovett quit, so why all the crying?

Who’s crying?

As you say, LoVett’s loss was costly for St John’s, turning a team which began the season with a hot start into one that lost 11 in a row. Why would you think that the loss of depth wouldn’t also have an impact on Villanova?

Before Lovett quit, SJU had one B.E. caliber player on the bench (Owens), I believe Nova's bench players are way better then ours.