Jan. 1, 2019. (1) Big East Game

[adoraz]

Eh, I'd have still given it about 10% odds that Heron gets fouled, misses more free throws and Powell hits from half court for the win lol

Eh, I think he had plenty of space to run out the clock... but Hall may have fouled with about 1.5 seconds left.

I know UK hit that insane shot against you guys with a little less than 2 seconds left, but that type of shot probably is only made 1/several hundred attempts. I thought Nova's title winning play with like 3.7 seconds left was impressive, but man that UK shot was something else.

So I'd say maybe 1% chance SJU loses if the whistle wasn't blown, being generous. If the whistle was blown and St. John's got possession back, then maybe a 5% chance they lose.

While acknowledging the slight possibility of that happening my post was mainly in jest. But while we're here - I agree there's no guarantee they'd have been able to foul Heron. It's impossible to really tell if/when it could have have happened because (naturally) everyone stopped at the whistle. At that point the clock is what matters - if they could get Powell a decent look from around half court, I wouldn't rule it out. Certainly not good odds though.

As far as SJU getting the ball back, once the whistle was blown there simply wasn't any scenario in which it could happen(as unfair as that sounds). In terms of game time, anything that happened after the whistle didn't happen - even though we could all clearly see what "would have" happened. Once the whistle was blown, the refs' hands were tied.

I hope you're right regarding the last point, as it'd make me feel better about the loss, but I've seen pretty conflicting reports on this. I believe SJU should have been given the ball since the possession arrow pointed in their favor. I know the official statement by the league said he stopped play due to the clock starting early, but I think that's BS and a convenient excuse for why he gave the ball to SHU. I'm pretty confident he thought LJ was going out of bounds so he blew the whistle.

To be honest I'm not certain and by no means an expert on the rules, I just know most SJU fans think the official statement is BS and has done more harm than good.

If you're interested:
https://redmen.com/forum/redmentalk/273 ... ement.html

Anyways, looking forward to the MSG match. If both teams are top 3-4 in the league it'll be an amazing fight.

[Hall2012]

I hope you're right regarding the last point, as it'd make me feel better about the loss, but I've seen pretty conflicting reports on this. I believe SJU should have been given the ball since the possession arrow pointed in their favor. I know the official statement by the league said he stopped play due to the clock starting early, but I think that's BS and a convenient excuse for why he gave the ball to SHU. I'm pretty confident he thought LJ was going out of bounds so he blew the whistle.

To be honest I'm not certain and by no means an expert on the rules, I just know most SJU fans think the official statement is BS and has done more harm than good.

If you're interested:
https://redmen.com/forum/redmentalk/273 ... ement.html

Anyways, looking forward to the MSG match. If both teams are top 3-4 in the league it'll be an amazing fight.

I certainly could be off also, but I did a bit of research into the NCAA's basketball rule book after this and here's the understanding I came to.

There are two types of possession defined in the rules - player control, which is very fluid and often varies by the second- and team control, which always belongs to the last team to have player control or inbound the ball until an opposing player takes it for his team. There are two main exceptions in which there can be no team control - a joint possession/held ball scenario where you normally see the possession arrow used, and immediately following a shot attempt and nobody has secured the rebound yet. In the case of a loose ball from something like a player dribbling off his foot or a deflected pass, there is no player control but there is still team control. This is why, for example, the shot clock keeps running during a loose ball and doesn't reset if the attacking team recovers it - they're still considered to have "team control" the entire time.

So in the scenario we saw Saturday - Seton Hall, being the inbounding team, had team control. The reason for the whistle - be it clock adjustment, inadvertent whistle, or intentional but wrong whistle (which is what I believe was really the case) didn't matter because the first restart option the rules call for in all 3 scenarios is the same- returning the ball to the team with "team possession." The arrow only would have come into play in one of those few exception cases, such off of a rebound. Again, it seems unfair because we all saw after the whistle that team possession was very clearly going to change, but it hadn't yet. The only way they could have given the ball to St. John's would have been to rule that Figueroa gained full control before the whistle and thus changed team possession. Having only tipped the ball at that point, it would be a tough sell.

Do two wrongs make a right? Normally that answer is no, but I could see reason for debate here.