Poll: Who will finish in 6th place this year?

[MUBoxer]

So now you are comparing a player who would not play defense and a team coached by Keno Davis to the BE defensive player of the year, probable NPOY and a team coached by Ed Cooley? Wow.

Yes, Marshon was easily the best offensive player in the Big East that year and had jack around him, if Peterson hadn't gotten expelled the prior year you guys probably make the tournament with that duo. I'm sorry I'm not on my hands and knees for Dunn, he's a great player but I don't see NPOY for him. I don't know why you're bringing keno vs Cooley into this. Great coaches have bad seasons (see buzz Williams last year at MU) and terrible coaches have great seasons (Stan Heath 2011) it happens, sometimes experience isn't there, the classes don't jell, or your entire team is a bunch of midgets and you only have one good player (kinda sounds like a particular team in the big east this year).

You aren't gonna change my mind, I'm not gonna be high on Providence this year. Prove me wrong, if I'm right I'll gladly gloat and rub it in your face I suggest you do the same

My comment didn't get posted (What's with that Admin? sometimes I hit submit and then I come back and the comment isn't there?) but I agree with the PC fans and Gumby. Dunn is a huge difference maker, he'll make everyone around him better. And Bentil, Lindsey and Bullock are all really good players. And Marquette's front court is overrated. Ellenson seems like the real deal, but fischer is massively overrated. You want to talk about rebounding when fischer couldn't even average 5 rebounds a game. Marquette actually lost their 2 leading rebounders. Rebounding isn't just about size. It's about effort and technique.

Luke had major shoulder surgery over the off-season (in case you forgot he was injured all last year with that massive shoulder brace). That'll change now that he can fully extend his arm, which is kinda important in rebounding.either way he was the most statistically efficient player in the conference last season so he'll get his numbers.

[FriarJ]

So now you are comparing a player who would not play defense and a team coached by Keno Davis to the BE defensive player of the year, probable NPOY and a team coached by Ed Cooley? Wow.

Yes, Marshon was easily the best offensive player in the Big East that year and had jack around him, if Peterson hadn't gotten expelled the prior year you guys probably make the tournament with that duo. I'm sorry I'm not on my hands and knees for Dunn, he's a great player but I don't see NPOY for him. I don't know why you're bringing keno vs Cooley into this. Great coaches have bad seasons (see buzz Williams last year at MU) and terrible coaches have great seasons (Stan Heath 2011) it happens, sometimes experience isn't there, the classes don't jell, or your entire team is a bunch of midgets and you only have one good player (kinda sounds like a particular team in the big east this year).

You aren't gonna change my mind, I'm not gonna be high on Providence this year. Prove me wrong, if I'm right I'll gladly gloat and rub it in your face I suggest you do the same

My comment didn't get posted (What's with that Admin? sometimes I hit submit and then I come back and the comment isn't there?) but I agree with the PC fans and Gumby. Dunn is a huge difference maker, he'll make everyone around him better. And Bentil, Lindsey and Bullock are all really good players. And Marquette's front court is overrated. Ellenson seems like the real deal, but fischer is massively overrated. You want to talk about rebounding when fischer couldn't even average 5 rebounds a game. Marquette actually lost their 2 leading rebounders. Rebounding isn't just about size. It's about effort and technique.

Luke had major shoulder surgery over the off-season (in case you forgot he was injured all last year with that massive shoulder brace). That'll change now that he can fully extend his arm, which is kinda important in rebounding.either way he was the most statistically efficient player in the conference last season so he'll get his numbers.

A bunch of midget's? Only player under 6'4" is Kyron Cartwright. We will be tall everywhere except the frontcourt. That may be a problem, How big a problem remains to be seen. I guess we will see. I bring keno into it because you are saying that PC will have a team like Marshon's senior year which is ridiculous because it is a completely different coach. The fact that you say they would have made the NCAA's if Greedy was on the team destroys your whole argument. Greedy was 6' 5" tall.

[GumbyDamnit!]

Luke had major shoulder surgery over the off-season (in case you forgot he was injured all last year with that massive shoulder brace). That'll change now that he can fully extend his arm, which is kinda important in rebounding.either way he was the most statistically efficient player in the conference last season so he'll get his numbers.

I was intrigued with the statement that Fisher "was the most statistically efficient player in the conference." I'd really like to see where you get the data to back up that statement. I decided to compare the stats of who I believed to be the top 6 true big men in the conference last year. I used stats per 40 mins so we weren't comparing apples to oranges. I gave the top player in each category 6 pts, 2nd person got 5, 3=4, down to 6 = 1. Fisher ranked 5th out of this list and trailed Ochefu, Smith and Stain by A LOT. In fact he and Delgado were the only 2 that did not lead any specific category, and Fisher and DeRosiers were the only 2 to come in dead last in 2 different categories. So not sure what your definition of efficiency is for centers in this league but I'd be curious to take a closer look at how you came up with that.

PLAYER.........Pts / 40.......Reb / 40 ...........Asst / 40........Blocks / 40.........FG %............PTS.
Ochefu...........15.3.............14.2..................2.5............ 2.3...............0.644.............25
Smith.............21.1.............11.3..................2.3............ 1.4 ..............0.621.............21
Stainbrook.......18.4.............10.3..................3.6.............0.9...............0.613.............18
Delgado..........13.2.............13.9..................1.3.............1.6...............0.555.............14
Fisher............15.0.............. 6.6..................1.2.............3.0...............0.609.............13
DeRosiers........10.7..............7.0...................1.3.............4.0...............0.449.............12

A couple of things... the shoulder surgery excuse for him not rebounding is bogus. If he can average 3.0 blocks per 40 minutes, then his shoulder is not the reason that he is not rebounding.

Also interestingly Ben Bentil averaged more rebounds per 40 than Fisher last year. And that was with several players on PC (DeRosiers, Harris, Chukwu) much bigger than him, while there weren't any on Marq smaller than Fisher. Maybe hoyahooligan is on to something...

[MUBoxer]

A bunch of midget's? Only player under 6'4" is Kyron Cartwright. We will be tall everywhere except the frontcourt. That may be a problem, How big a problem remains to be seen. I guess we will see. I bring keno into it because you are saying that PC will have a team like Marshon's senior year which is ridiculous because it is a completely different coach. The fact that you say they would have made the NCAA's if Greedy was on the team destroys your whole argument. Greedy was 6' 5" tall.

Dude I brought in Peterson because he was averaging over 19 ppg, I meant that in relation to the talent that would've been around Brooks it would've pushed that team into NCAA level, not anything about height. And via espn 6'4" or under is Dunn, Casey Woodring, Tyree Chambers, Drew Edwards, and Kyron Cartwright. Maybe midget was an exaggeration but you certainly are below average when you have one player above 6-8, who's still not exactly tall at 6-9.

I'm not talking about coaching capabilities with you. You can compare teams talentwise without talking coaches. What I said specifically was that this team reminded me of that situation which is an outstanding talent with crap around him.

[MUBoxer]

Luke had major shoulder surgery over the off-season (in case you forgot he was injured all last year with that massive shoulder brace). That'll change now that he can fully extend his arm, which is kinda important in rebounding.either way he was the most statistically efficient player in the conference last season so he'll get his numbers.

I was intrigued with the statement that Fisher "was the most statistically efficient player in the conference." I'd really like to see where you get the data to back up that statement. I decided to compare the stats of who I believed to be the top 6 true big men in the conference last year. I used stats per 40 mins so we weren't comparing apples to oranges. I gave the top player in each category 6 pts, 2nd person got 5, 3=4, down to 6 = 1. Fisher ranked 5th out of this list and trailed Ochefu, Smith and Stain by A LOT. In fact he and Delgado were the only 2 that did not lead any specific category, and Fisher and DeRosiers were the only 2 to come in dead last in 2 different categories. So not sure what your definition of efficiency is for centers in this league but I'd be curious to take a closer look at how you came up with that.

PLAYER.........Pts / 40.......Reb / 40 ...........Asst / 40........Blocks / 40.........FG %............PTS.
Ochefu...........15.3.............14.2..................2.5............ 2.3...............0.644.............25
Smith.............21.1.............11.3..................2.3............ 1.4 ..............0.621.............21
Stainbrook.......18.4.............10.3..................3.6.............0.9...............0.613.............18
Delgado..........13.2.............13.9..................1.3.............1.6...............0.555.............14
Fisher............15.0.............. 6.6..................1.2.............3.0...............0.609.............13
DeRosiers........10.7..............7.0...................1.3.............4.0...............0.449.............12

A couple of things... the shoulder surgery excuse for him not rebounding is bogus. If he can average 3.0 blocks per 40 minutes, then his shoulder is not the reason that he is not rebounding.

Also interestingly Ben Bentil averaged more rebounds per 40 than Fisher last year. And that was with several players on PC (DeRosiers, Harris, Chukwu) much bigger than him, while there weren't any on Marq smaller than Fisher. Maybe hoyahooligan is on to something...

Specifically meant offensive efficiency. My lunch break is over in 15, if I can find where I heard that I will post it. May have been on Crackedsidewalks or painttouches.

[FriarJ]

A bunch of midget's? Only player under 6'4" is Kyron Cartwright. We will be tall everywhere except the frontcourt. That may be a problem, How big a problem remains to be seen. I guess we will see. I bring keno into it because you are saying that PC will have a team like Marshon's senior year which is ridiculous because it is a completely different coach. The fact that you say they would have made the NCAA's if Greedy was on the team destroys your whole argument. Greedy was 6' 5" tall.

Dude I brought in Peterson because he was averaging over 19 ppg, I meant that in relation to the talent that would've been around Brooks it would've pushed that team into NCAA level, not anything about height. And via espn 6'4" or under is Dunn, Casey Woodring, Tyree Chambers, Drew Edwards, and Kyron Cartwright. Maybe midget was an exaggeration but you certainly are below average when you have one player above 6-8, who's still not exactly tall at 6-9.

I'm not talking about coaching capabilities with you. You can compare teams talentwise without talking coaches. What I said specifically was that this team reminded me of that situation which is an outstanding talent with crap around him.

Dunn is 6'4" and the fact that you are pulling in walk-ons and a 6"3" freshman to try and prove a point tells me you actually know nothing about PC other than some stats and you don't like Dunn. Really kicking myself for even engaging you.

[DudeAnon]

7 oclock January 5th. Marquette at Providence. Lets do it.

[FriarJ]

To be clear, my side of this has nothing to do with Marquette, never mentioned them once in any post except when I listed all schools BE records, I was defending PC. I expect as most Marquette will be significantly better with easy top 4 potential.

[hoyahooligan]

Luke had major shoulder surgery over the off-season (in case you forgot he was injured all last year with that massive shoulder brace). That'll change now that he can fully extend his arm, which is kinda important in rebounding.either way he was the most statistically efficient player in the conference last season so he'll get his numbers.

I was intrigued with the statement that Fisher "was the most statistically efficient player in the conference." I'd really like to see where you get the data to back up that statement. I decided to compare the stats of who I believed to be the top 6 true big men in the conference last year. I used stats per 40 mins so we weren't comparing apples to oranges. I gave the top player in each category 6 pts, 2nd person got 5, 3=4, down to 6 = 1. Fisher ranked 5th out of this list and trailed Ochefu, Smith and Stain by A LOT. In fact he and Delgado were the only 2 that did not lead any specific category, and Fisher and DeRosiers were the only 2 to come in dead last in 2 different categories. So not sure what your definition of efficiency is for centers in this league but I'd be curious to take a closer look at how you came up with that.

PLAYER.........Pts / 40.......Reb / 40 ...........Asst / 40........Blocks / 40.........FG %............PTS.
Ochefu...........15.3.............14.2..................2.5............ 2.3...............0.644.............25
Smith.............21.1.............11.3..................2.3............ 1.4 ..............0.621.............21
Stainbrook.......18.4.............10.3..................3.6.............0.9...............0.613.............18
Delgado..........13.2.............13.9..................1.3.............1.6...............0.555.............14
Fisher............15.0.............. 6.6..................1.2.............3.0...............0.609.............13
DeRosiers........10.7..............7.0...................1.3.............4.0...............0.449.............12

A couple of things... the shoulder surgery excuse for him not rebounding is bogus. If he can average 3.0 blocks per 40 minutes, then his shoulder is not the reason that he is not rebounding.

Also interestingly Ben Bentil averaged more rebounds per 40 than Fisher last year. And that was with several players on PC (DeRosiers, Harris, Chukwu) much bigger than him, while there weren't any on Marq smaller than Fisher. Maybe hoyahooligan is on to something...

Specifically meant offensive efficiency. My lunch break is over in 15, if I can find where I heard that I will post it. May have been on Crackedsidewalks or painttouches.

Not even close Fischer has an Ortg of 105.2 not even tops on his team(Carlino was 107.2) and well behind other centers: Stainbrook 118.9, Ochefu 118.1, Smith 112, Delgado 107.8, Desrosiers 107.2.

[MUBoxer]

To be clear, my side of this has nothing to do with Marquette, never mentioned them once in any post except when I listed all schools BE records, I was defending PC. I expect as most Marquette will be significantly better with easy top 4 potential.

Dude I wouldn't care if you did say something about mu if it was true I wouldn't correct you. If it was your opinion is argue it like you are that's about it were on a conference message board there's not some rule we only give opinions about our teams haha. Like I said if I'm wrong rub my face in it if I'm right I'll probably do the same.

Sorry if walk ons don't count in your book, you said team not "core returning players" that's a bit more of a selective group.

I don't really follow providence anymore, I don't have the time to so I'll gladly admit to just looking at listed heights, returning stats etc. I stick to MU GU and VU. I do know however that I very much dislike fenwich high school as they're my HS's cross town rival so the fact that Tom Planek walked onto your team gives me reason not like y'all for a bit