Curious to see what non-SJ fans think

[ChestRockwell85]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

[NJRedman]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

Who cares where the kids come from? For real, there is no difference between a kid who comes right out of high school and a transfer. There is no downside to taking in transfers. The upside is they are more likely to actually stick around since they've already transfered once as opposed to a kid out of HS who has second thoughts.

[gtmoBlue]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

Who cares where the kids come from? For real, there is no difference between a kid who comes right out of high school and a transfer. There is no downside to taking in transfers. The upside is they are more likely to actually stick around since they've already transfered once as opposed to a kid out of HS who has second thoughts.

One man's trash is another man's treasure...Good points irt to StJ and their relative success and/or lack thereof. However, cultivating/accepting transfers doesn't necessarily equate to a revolving door strategy.

Creighton gets some Top 50-150 kids (not enough) and tends to whiff on higher rated targets. The bringing in transfers (and Int'l players) has kept the program afloat even while recruiting is waffling. Our transfers have kept the competition level of Jays teams up and helped reduce wild performance swings over the years. Based on our limited HS recruiting successes to date, I submit that bringing in transfers has saved the Jays from embarassment and from being perennial cellar dwellers. We'll take Figueroa, Simons, Keita, Heron, Steere (former Jay commit), and any other former 4-5 star transferees the Johnnies don't want.

Just saying... gtmo

[stever20]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

Who cares where the kids come from? For real, there is no difference between a kid who comes right out of high school and a transfer. There is no downside to taking in transfers. The upside is they are more likely to actually stick around since they've already transfered once as opposed to a kid out of HS who has second thoughts.

Not sure how true your last statement is.... I mean, Didn't St John's lose Owens to a graduate transfer after getting him as a transfer? 1 thing with all transfers that sit out, that last year, they have been there for 4 years so easily could be graduate transfers. I'd be curious to see what % of graduate transfers transferred as underclassmen.

[adoraz]

There are major issues with us becoming "Transfer U":

1. Transfers were unhappy once, so it's very possible they will be unhappy again. And yes, they absolutely will transfer. Just look at Dixon from a couple weeks ago. Look at Owens from last year (didn't even return as a STARTER). Will Simon stay after this year, or go elsewhere and be immediately eligible as a grad (like Owens)? It's rare for us to keep a transfer for more than 1 year, yet they spend 1 year on the bench.
2. High impact immediately eligible transfers, like Heron, are extremely rare. Can't count on players like him as a yearly recruiting strategy.
3. Transfers are easy to recruit, as they take FAR less time than high school students. Staff only needs to be on them for a few weeks/days. That's the big problem, we're NOT recruiting high school students to the extent we should be. We're taking the easy route. Matt is the only one who goes all out. Mullin, Mitch, and GSJ do a mediocre job.

Why do we keep having only 5/6 BE caliber players each year? It's a combination of too many transfers and a lack of HS recruiting.

I like transfers being a big part of our team, but having them be the MAIN part is simply not going to work long term.

[REDMEN1415]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

Oh I agree, which is why we need another recruiter. Matt's specialty is the transfer game.
Get a assistant that can recruit HS kids. The assistant has to do other things on the staff as well, not just recruit.
Maybe an experienced former HC to help Chris with in game decisions.

[NJRedman]

There are major issues with us becoming "Transfer U":

1. Transfers were unhappy once, so it's very possible they will be unhappy again. And yes, they absolutely will transfer. Just look at Dixon from a couple weeks ago. Look at Owens from last year (didn't even return as a STARTER). Will Simon stay after this year, or go elsewhere and be immediately eligible as a grad (like Owens)? It's rare for us to keep a transfer for more than 1 year, yet they spend 1 year on the bench.
2. High impact immediately eligible transfers, like Heron, are extremely rare. Can't count on players like him as a yearly recruiting strategy.
3. Transfers are easy to recruit, as they take FAR less time than high school students. Staff only needs to be on them for a few weeks/days. That's the big problem, we're NOT recruiting high school students to the extent we should be. We're taking the easy route. Matt is the only one who goes all out. Mullin, Mitch, and GSJ do a mediocre job.

Why do we keep having only 5/6 BE caliber players each year? It's a combination of too many transfers and a lack of HS recruiting.

I like transfers being a big part of our team, but having them be the MAIN part is simply not going to work long term.

Well it hasn't been long term so you don't know that. You pointed out 2 transfers out of how many? 12?

[NJRedman]

To be honest, I think until St. John's realizes that being "Transfer U" has not been a successful strategy you will be struggling to string together more than one good year here and there. When it becomes a revolving door program it is very hard to be consistent. Stop looking for transfers, and find those kids who are in the Top 150-100 range who are going to buy in to the program, develop, and stick around for 4 years. That is how you build a program.

With that being said, until that happens, I don't think it will matter who your coach is.

Oh I agree, which is why we need another recruiter. Matt's specialty is the transfer game.
Get a assistant that can recruit HS kids. The assistant has to do other things on the staff as well, not just recruit.
Maybe an experienced former HC to help Chris with in game decisions.

Can we stop pining for Mike friggin Rice please?

[adoraz]

There are major issues with us becoming "Transfer U":

1. Transfers were unhappy once, so it's very possible they will be unhappy again. And yes, they absolutely will transfer. Just look at Dixon from a couple weeks ago. Look at Owens from last year (didn't even return as a STARTER). Will Simon stay after this year, or go elsewhere and be immediately eligible as a grad (like Owens)? It's rare for us to keep a transfer for more than 1 year, yet they spend 1 year on the bench.
2. High impact immediately eligible transfers, like Heron, are extremely rare. Can't count on players like him as a yearly recruiting strategy.
3. Transfers are easy to recruit, as they take FAR less time than high school students. Staff only needs to be on them for a few weeks/days. That's the big problem, we're NOT recruiting high school students to the extent we should be. We're taking the easy route. Matt is the only one who goes all out. Mullin, Mitch, and GSJ do a mediocre job.

Why do we keep having only 5/6 BE caliber players each year? It's a combination of too many transfers and a lack of HS recruiting.

I like transfers being a big part of our team, but having them be the MAIN part is simply not going to work long term.

Well it hasn't been long term so you don't know that. You pointed out 2 transfers out of how many? 12?

I believe out of "12" or however many transfers we've had under 4 years of Mullin, we've only had two players play for more than 1 year. Clark and Simon have both stayed 2 years. Clark will be gone after the year while Simon has the option to grad transfer. That isn't good, but you're right in that it's a small sample.

All my other points are valid, though. We currently have no depth, and that is in large part due to losing two transfers for the year (who both just happen to be transfers themselves). It is also due to having 2-4 future transfers sit out every year, taking up scholarships.

There's a reason we're playing the transfer game so hard and nobody else is- it's because other teams have coaches that put in significantly more effort recruiting. If it were a great strategy and superior to high school recruiting, I'm sure at least another coach or two would've thought of it by now.

This year we are starting 3 transfers (Simon, Clark, Heron). While they have been our best 3 transfers to date, I'd bet that none of them will return next year.

All I'm saying is we need to put in more effort recruiting high school students too.

[ChestRockwell85]

My point was not to bash St. John's. I would love for them to do well. It was just watching Villanova, Jay always relies on Senior leadership from guys who are with the program for 4 years, I mean I can start rattling off a list of names in just the past decade, look at Booth and Paschall this year (yes, Paschall was a transfer, but he transferred after his freshman year and has been playing in the Villanova system for 3 years). I am not against transfers, bringing in a transfer here and there can fill a void and really help the program, but when you become too reliant on transfers, you don't really see the same guys playing together year after year so it is hard for them to truly gel. It is like you are pretty much looking at a new roster every 2 years, just hard to make any momentum that way.

I think if St. John's focused on getting highly rated 3 star guys and 4 star guys in the 100-150 range who come directly out of high school, bought into the program, and stuck around for 3 or 4 years, you would have a lot more success than by throwing together a team with transfers.

Again, please take this post as me bashing St. John's. That happened a few years ago when I got into it with a few Johnnies fans on the board and it was NOT what I was looking to do. I sincerely would love to see St. John's become a consistent tournament team. That would be HUGE for the Big East.