Orlando Classic (Xavier) Bracket Set

[thebigeXpress]

"5) The heckling of Christi Mack and the behavior at the First Four was the last straw. It burned any bridges that may have remained.
Dayton should be happy, the rivalry has worked against them for 30 years and they won more NCAA games in 2 years without the rivalry than 30 years prior."

I don't have much of a problem with the "first four incident" it was a couple college kids with nothing better to do. In the end, it didn't hurt anything or anyone, and could probably be chalked up to harmless fun. I hear talk of the time X won the A-10 tournament at Dayton, and our fans are rumored to have rushed the court, and stomped/spit on their logo. Point being, both sides have tales like this of how terrible the other teams fan base it. The incident involving Christ Mack, I agree it was totally classless and unacceptable, but a lot of UD's fan base has said the same as well. For the most part, their fan base, like ours, is mostly good people but there are always a few who spoil the bunch. As for playing them or not, I have no problem with you not wanting to ever play them again. You're not the only one who feels that way, and you have every right to think like that. Dayton has a solid program. They have underachieved for a long time, but at present their needle is pointing up. I agree that admission to the Big East should be based on much more than just a good 2-3 more stretch, but that has already been argued by both sides endlessly.

I have to agree with Anon and his main point wasn't addressed above. I'm not against Dayton being invited to the BE; I just don't want the league to expand. 10 teams is better than 12 as this would cause logistic issues. The Dayton Daily News commented on Bill Murray's connection to Xavier and someone commented "Bill Murray is dead to me". Why would anyone say that? I just can't see any fan from the other nine teams in the BE saying a comment like that. The fans of the different teams in this conference are passionate and loyal and, although there may be an aura of dislike, I just feel when it comes down to it I can root for anyone in our conference. I just can't see Dayton rooting for us under any circumstance.

[Schickrateez]

Dayton getting into the Big EAST will be based on money. If Fox deems Dayton will enhance the conference and make all the schools more money they will be strongly considered. There will be a new wave of realignment, with that UC will move to a larger football conference and the rivalry with X will diminish in Basketball over time.

Not sure how familiar you are with the Cincinnati area, but college basketball is pretty big around here. Even if UC got into a bigger conference, I don't see their football team competing regularly for conference or national championships. The Crosstown Shootout will always be one of the biggest sports events in the area. Unless one school decides to end the series, the rivalry will never diminish.

[hoopstar]

I hope it continues, its great but if UC goes to a P5 all may change. lets hope the ADs stick with it.

[DudeAnon]

"5) The heckling of Christi Mack and the behavior at the First Four was the last straw. It burned any bridges that may have remained.
Dayton should be happy, the rivalry has worked against them for 30 years and they won more NCAA games in 2 years without the rivalry than 30 years prior."

I don't have much of a problem with the "first four incident" it was a couple college kids with nothing better to do. In the end, it didn't hurt anything or anyone, and could probably be chalked up to harmless fun. I hear talk of the time X won the A-10 tournament at Dayton, and our fans are rumored to have rushed the court, and stomped/spit on their logo. Point being, both sides have tales like this of how terrible the other teams fan base it. The incident involving Christ Mack, I agree it was totally classless and unacceptable, but a lot of UD's fan base has said the same as well. For the most part, their fan base, like ours, is mostly good people but there are always a few who spoil the bunch. As for playing them or not, I have no problem with you not wanting to ever play them again. You're not the only one who feels that way, and you have every right to think like that. Dayton has a solid program. They have underachieved for a long time, but at present their needle is pointing up. I agree that admission to the Big East should be based on much more than just a good 2-3 more stretch, but that has already been argued by both sides endlessly.

I have to agree with Anon and his main point wasn't addressed above. I'm not against Dayton being invited to the BE; I just don't want the league to expand. 10 teams is better than 12 as this would cause logistic issues. The Dayton Daily News commented on Bill Murray's connection to Xavier and someone commented "Bill Murray is dead to me". Why would anyone say that? I just can't see any fan from the other nine teams in the BE saying a comment like that. The fans of the different teams in this conference are passionate and loyal and, although there may be an aura of dislike, I just feel when it comes down to it I can root for anyone in our conference. I just can't see Dayton rooting for us under any circumstance.

+1. Really, the only candidate worth expanding over is UCONN. Until then, just enjoy the 10 teams we have.

Dayton shouldn't be in the Big East for plenty of reasons, but the rivalry needs to end regardless. I have a ton of UC fans in my extended family and we all enjoy and compliment each other's basketball programs. Dayton is just not the same relationship.

[murphy]

"5) The heckling of Christi Mack and the behavior at the First Four was the last straw. It burned any bridges that may have remained.
Dayton should be happy, the rivalry has worked against them for 30 years and they won more NCAA games in 2 years without the rivalry than 30 years prior."

I don't have much of a problem with the "first four incident" it was a couple college kids with nothing better to do. In the end, it didn't hurt anything or anyone, and could probably be chalked up to harmless fun. I hear talk of the time X won the A-10 tournament at Dayton, and our fans are rumored to have rushed the court, and stomped/spit on their logo. Point being, both sides have tales like this of how terrible the other teams fan base it. The incident involving Christ Mack, I agree it was totally classless and unacceptable, but a lot of UD's fan base has said the same as well. For the most part, their fan base, like ours, is mostly good people but there are always a few who spoil the bunch. As for playing them or not, I have no problem with you not wanting to ever play them again. You're not the only one who feels that way, and you have every right to think like that. Dayton has a solid program. They have underachieved for a long time, but at present their needle is pointing up. I agree that admission to the Big East should be based on much more than just a good 2-3 more stretch, but that has already been argued by both sides endlessly.

I have to agree with Anon and his main point wasn't addressed above. I'm not against Dayton being invited to the BE; I just don't want the league to expand. 10 teams is better than 12 as this would cause logistic issues. The Dayton Daily News commented on Bill Murray's connection to Xavier and someone commented "Bill Murray is dead to me". Why would anyone say that? I just can't see any fan from the other nine teams in the BE saying a comment like that. The fans of the different teams in this conference are passionate and loyal and, although there may be an aura of dislike, I just feel when it comes down to it I can root for anyone in our conference. I just can't see Dayton rooting for us under any circumstance.

Couple points = OSU does not root for Michigan and vice versa, now what would the Big 10 be without this rivalry? The best and most interesting rivalry's never involve rooting for each other. Imagine the Red Sox rooting for the Yankees? Or the Browns rooting for the Bengals?

Also to correct the earlier poster, UDs acceptance rate is 73%, not exactly an easy place to get into, relatively speaking (XU = 59%)

[NovaBall]

If Big East is going to expand to 12, there are only a few acceptable candidates. And most of them aren't interested.

Outside of the Duke/Kansas/UCLA/UNC/Michigan State completely off the wall type candidates, the following are the only schools I would think about adding to the Big East at this time:

UConn
Gonzaga
Notre Dame
Boston College
Syracuse

And I fully understand the latter 3 have about 0% chance of ever happening. So really the only two teams out there that could move the needle enough to go from 10 to 12 teams are Gonzaga and UConn.

St. Louis, Dayton, BYU type teams are interesting, but not enough to mess with the good thing going on now.

[Xudash]

I honestly hope Xavier never plays Dayton again.

1) We already have a rival. UC and X will go up and down but we always play each other. Dayton has that with Wright State.
2) They are no longer equals. X improved for 30 years to earn the right to the Big East. Dayton was satisfied with mediocrity for the entirety of that time.
3) We are too similar. People can pick their own stats, but UD and X are very much equal in academic prestige and ideology. X is lacking in some areas (engineering, tech) and UD is larger but they have a lower bar for acceptance (personally know someone with a sub 3.0 GPA and 23 ACT that got in.) and much of their appeal is basically sponsored underage drinking in the "ghetto."
4) People talk about Conference Expansion like its a band-aid. If GW makes the final four is Georgetown going to invite them? Butler, Creighton and Xavier invested millions of dollars and countless hours over 20+ years building up their basketball programs to be what they are. We shouldn't reward teams for having a good 2 year stint.
5) The heckling of Christi Mack and the behavior at the First Four was the last straw. It burned any bridges that may have remained.
Dayton should be happy, the rivalry has worked against them for 30 years and they won more NCAA games in 2 years without the rivalry than 30 years prior.

Also, not to be grim. But Dayton's fanbase is much older than most. They are the ones that hate Xavier the most. Because they remember Dayton in its glory days and saw their southern brother surpass them. Dayton needs to cater to its younger fanbase who probably never enjoyed the lopsided rivalry and much prefers having their own identity.

20 years from now maybe Dayton will be better than Xavier, but they will have to earn it on their own, same as Xavier has done.

Excellent post.

My first reaction is to your last sentence: while coaching is tantamount to success, Xavier is much better positioned to sustain success in basketball due to its membership in the Big East, the money that brings, and because of its now 3 decade old track record. Obviously, it goes without saying that Xavier has been exceptional when it comes to managing its coaching lineage. UD has been a joke in that regard. So, overall, that is a very weak "maybe"; I'd say UD is "stuck" in one sense (the A10 v. the Big East) and will benefit in another sense - we're not there to club them to death any longer. With things tracking the way they are for the Big East, I see brand separation continuing between BE programs and A10 programs.

Otherwise, I think this Murphy guy is one of their older alums. He almost has to be. He actually seems to think that there is separation other than size between the two schools, when anyone with a brain knows that Xavier and UD and even Miami (OH) - to name three, in particular - are competing for many of the same kids. Otherwise, it's not that we "lack" in engineering; we simply didn't go down that road, nor did we go down the road of establishing a law school.

When it comes to tech, I would be a little more up-to-date than you are with that. Xavier's Center For Innovation (CFI) has already made great strides under Shawn Nason and now that it's tied to Cintrifuse and corporate partners like GE, etc. its off to the races. The fact that Xavier resides in Cincinnati is a Godsend in that regard. I would hate being located in a city like Dayton, which simply can't compete with the amount of entrepreneurial activity that is now taking place in the 'nati.

He really seems to like rankings and lists. How about a couple where UD doesn't even register:

Not even an afterthought: http://www.cruxnow.com/life/2014/09/10/top-catholic-colleges-and-universities-according-to-u-s-news-world-report/

Didn't even make the cut: http://www.collegechoice.net/rankings/top-catholic-colleges-and-universities/

Dayton isn't getting into the Big East. What will happen now will happen gradually. This and a few other UD fans' raging jealousy of Xavier will continue, but it will simmer down as we move away from the shellacking we gave them in Orlando. Some UD fans will come here and be civil or try to be civil. Some, like this poor Murphy guy, will find it harder to let go, but without knowing how small and petty he makes UD fandom look.

Murphy, I might have to start feeling sorry for you. 90-61.

Admin, why don't you consider locking this one up.

p.s. Who in their right mind would write-off Bill Murray just because his son coaches for Xavier. Nothing like UD fans little brothering it.

[hoopstar]

Its about money..Eyeballs on TV and Attendance. In a perfect world a UConn would be a great fit.. not going to happen. Check the TV ratings for this weekend and clearly shows that Dayton has a strong following. Dayton clearly out distanced X in TV viewers for the weekend and out did any other Big East game on any network. Fact check it if you disagree. Go to Neilson Ratings .com . X basketball performance is terrific but there fans don't travel. Poor showing in Orlando and overwhelmed by Dayton fans. X is a regional school with a loyal following but not on the scale of a Louisville...UK...VCU....Dayton. Dayton would put 5k in the seats at MSG for the tourney and make it a even better atmosphere and please the Money guys. X has a great team this year and barley filled a corner. Two X games have had less than 10k in there own arena this year. Just not an intense group. Dayton will be next in and it will work well.

[DudeAnon]

Its about money..Eyeballs on TV and Attendance. In a perfect world a UConn would be a great fit.. not going to happen. Check the TV ratings for this weekend and clearly shows that Dayton has a strong following. Dayton clearly out distanced X in TV viewers for the weekend and out did any other Big East game on any network. Fact check it if you disagree. Go to Neilson Ratings .com . X basketball performance is terrific but there fans don't travel. Poor showing in Orlando and overwhelmed by Dayton fans. X is a regional school with a loyal following but not on the scale of a Louisville...UK...VCU....Dayton. Dayton would put 5k in the seats at MSG for the tourney and make it a even better atmosphere and please the Money guys. X has a great team this year and barley filled a corner. Two X games have had less than 10k in there own arena this year. Just not an intense group. Dayton will be next in and it will work well.

1) Dayton has eyeballs, old ones.
2) C7 didn't want Dayton 2 years ago, now X will only reinforce that point.
3) Xavier has the 5th best home court advantage. Cintas holds 10,250. So we had less than 98% capacity for 2 games. Nice burn.
4) Dayton has proven they can sustain one thing, mediocrity.
5) #JimmyCarter, #ZipEmUp, #90-61

How you can be so cocky is crazy. This was the face of your program, 3 DAYS AGO!

[Xudash]

Its about money..Eyeballs on TV and Attendance. In a perfect world a UConn would be a great fit.. not going to happen. Check the TV ratings for this weekend and clearly shows that Dayton has a strong following. Dayton clearly out distanced X in TV viewers for the weekend and out did any other Big East game on any network. Fact check it if you disagree. Go to Neilson Ratings .com . X basketball performance is terrific but there fans don't travel. Poor showing in Orlando and overwhelmed by Dayton fans. X is a regional school with a loyal following but not on the scale of a Louisville...UK...VCU....Dayton. Dayton would put 5k in the seats at MSG for the tourney and make it a even better atmosphere and please the Money guys. X has a great team this year and barley filled a corner. Two X games have had less than 10k in there own arena this year. Just not an intense group. Dayton will be next in and it will work well.

I present to my fellow Big East fans yet another example of pure delusion from a Cryer fan.

Xavier, when it comes to basketball, is regarded as a national player in the sport. Period. End of story. We achieved that status before joining the Big East and we were invited to the Big East because of that status and the strength of our program - in all phases. In those years where people were fussing about what it did or didn't mean to be considered a "mid-major" Xavier, Gonzaga and Memphis, in particular, all rose above that fracas. Now we don't even have to worry about that anymore.

UD? Nothing more than a mid-major that loved to vote itself pre-season accolades, only to fall apart during most seasons. National reputations overall? Obviously, Xavier is more well known than UD. We have much more exposure, especially now that we're a member of the Big East. Loading up a bunch of old people in sweater vests for a bus ride to Florida doesn't translate to any form of a national standing.

TV ratings for this weekend? Who did Dayton put its mid-major athletes up against on Sunday? 90-61. An absolute drubbing. Oh yes, key minutes coming from freshmen, sophomores and juniors. I'm referring to Xavier freshmen, sophomores and juniors. You poor dumb bastards thought it had something to do with your younger players not being ready. It has everything to do with being outclassed athletically. You guys can be entertaining.

Our fans have bought Xavier's full allotment to MSG for the first two years of the revised Big East. We rank 42nd nationally in attendance, which is impressive for a school with <5k undergrads. We had at least 500 people in Orlando watch Xavier annihilate UD. A few of them came back and specifically mentioned on XH that the demographic profile of the UD fans in attendance in Orlando was 80% AARP, 10% grandchildren and 10% in the key strip of 18-35. That would be bad, for UD.

We are in a place where we are very happy - we being Big East fans - with the current ten teams and with how the conference is trending in all our key metrics. IF expansion were to become a serious topic again, schools like UCONN would come to mind first. Schools like that would have a true impact. They would truly add value at the margin; they would be game changers, in a sense. Not a mid-major school whose fans can't appreciate reality and who fail to grasp just how inconsequential their basketball program is outside of a small region in Ohio.

It has to have been murder losing to a school you despise so much. It has to be worse knowing that UD isn't worthy of a Big East membership, nor will it ever sniff one.

I'll end this one with this: VCU? http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2015.pdf