Conference Realignment Thread v. 2016

[_lh]

That's exactly what I thought to myself when I read her quotes. She is talking about a UConn dropping football, Wake Forest dropping football, etc. I completely understand these are extremely unlikely scenarios (just as ND, BC are) but I don't think we're expanding until something crazy happens with a current FBS school.[/quote]

I don't believe for a minute that's what she is talking about. The speculation about UConn is totally out of left field. The university has literally spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade or so to upgrade athletic facilities across the board - in lavish, state-of-the-art practice facilities as well as stadiums, fields, and arenas. Their BOT past a resolution within the past couple of months to open doors to new funding sources that will not tap student tuition as they've done in the past. So, the money train will continue.

The idea that UConn has made this extraordinary investment in athletics only so it can shut down the operation in a few years is turning a blind eye to reality. Cincy has made similar investments in their facilities as have other P5 aspirants. These are not "extremely unlikely" scenarios. They are nonexistent. UConn is never coming back. Neither are BC or Notre Dame, both of which are awash in money.

Their needs to be a reality check on this kind of speculation.

I have no idea what she means, but I can't believe that any competent conference executive would entertain that kind of delusional thinking. If there are no good options, then they will stay at 10, which is fine with me. If Fox demands more content, then they'll have a problem they'll have to deal with.[/quote]

So you're telling me that if in 10 years UConn is still in the AAC, have not been successful, have not been making bowls, have not been making money, and therefore their overall brand has negatively effected their basketball program they wouldn't think about dropping football?

Everyone knows the only chance of making it into the CFB Playoffs is if you're in a P5 league. If they are still in the AAC in 10 years, the "money train" will NOT continue. You can't be serious with that statement, right? The citizens of Connecticut aren't stupid. After a decade of losing (both money and on the field), they will be demanding a change. If you don't think this is possible, you're totally clueless. Again, I think this is doubtful to happen, but the chances are not "nonexistent." There's just no way you can speak in absolutes like that. The college athletic landscape is going to be changing significantly in the next 10 years- the have's and the have not's. If UConn feels they are in the have-not's, something COULD happen.

Until something crazy happens with an FBS schools happens, I'm content with 10. I don't want to become the A-10 2.0 so taking any of their schools is out of the question in my mind.[/quote]

This is dead on! UCONN is not in great shape if they get left behind in the AAC. They may find out by this summer that they are left out and have to re-evaluate pursuing big time football. Sunk costs are sunk costs but only idiots continue to throw money at a losing proposition.

It may be a long shot but the long shots are the only ones that make sense for additions. The BE can stay at 10 and be just fine or welcome in a long shot or two if things break that way.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Dayton. We know how much Xavier hates them, which makes for a terrific rivalry game right off the bat, even if X normally wins the game. They'll also bring plenty of people to the BET, and while it's not a big market they're in, they do dominate it.

And by a big margin, with Wright State, Ohio State, Cincinnati and Xavier and all getting very small slices of the Dayton College Basketball TV Market pie.

Dayton Moves up to Sixth Among Top College Basketball TV Markets – March 9, 2016

Nielson - Local Television Market Universe Estimates - January 1, 2016

AC Nielson lists the St. Louis TV Market as the 21st-largest in the country, but St. Louis is primarily a ‘professional sports city’ which is dominated by the Missouri Tigers for college sports. The Richmond-Petersburg TV Market hosts many alumni from VCU (enrolment 31,000), Virginia Tech (enrolment 31,000), Old Dominion (enrolment 25,000), the University of Virginia (enrolment 22,000), and the University of Richmond (enrolment 4,000).
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There's conference camaraderie. There's rivalries coupled with mutual respect. There's commonality among institutions. There are shared goals. And significantly, there isn't any desire by schools to look elsewhere. Now, that's exactly what you want for a conference.

What must happen in order for that to fully come to fruition and be sustainable is what is happening now with the Big East: improving media numbers, successful conference championships, strong performances in the regular season, and post-season success in the NCAA Tournament.

3-Year Average Final RPI Ranking - Team ( 2013-14 Final RPI Ranking • 2014-15 Final RPI Ranking • 2015-16 Final RPI Ranking )

5 - Villanova ( 8 • 6 • 2 )
30 - Xavier ( 56 • 28 • 8 )
34 - Providence ( 46 • 25 • 32 )

67 - Georgetown ( 75 • 24 • 103 )
79 - Butler ( 154 • 30 • 53 )
82 - BE Average ( 83 • 77 • 87 )
87 - Seton Hall ( 136 • 103 • 23 )
89 - Creighton ( 17 • 157 • 94 )

116 - Marquette ( 94 • 145 • 111 )
126 - St. John's ( 82 • 52 • 245 )
185 - DePaul ( 157 • 197 • 201 )

29 - Dayton ( 33 • 29 • 25 )
39 - UConn ( 5 • 81 • 33 )
86 - Richmond ( 71 • 64 • 125 )
166 - Saint Louis ( 19 • 273 • 207 )


3-Year Average Final RPI Ranking - Team ( 2013-14 Final RPI Ranking • 2014-15 Final RPI Ranking • 2015-16 Final RPI Ranking )

5 - Villanova ( 8 • 6 • 2 )
29 - Dayton ( 33 • 29 • 25 )
30 - Xavier ( 56 • 28 • 8 )
34 - Providence ( 46 • 25 • 32 )
39 - UConn ( 5 • 81 • 33 )

67 - Georgetown ( 75 • 24 • 103 )
79 - Butler ( 154 • 30 • 53 )
82 - BE Average ( 83 • 77 • 87 )
86 - Richmond ( 71 • 64 • 125 )
87 - Seton Hall ( 136 • 103 • 23 )
89 - Creighton ( 17 • 157 • 94 )

116 - Marquette ( 94 • 145 • 111 )
126 - St. John's ( 82 • 52 • 245 )
166 - Saint Louis ( 19 • 273 • 207 )
185 - DePaul ( 157 • 197 • 201 )


3-Year Total NCAA Tournament Wins -Team ( 2013-14 NCAA W-L • 2014-15 NCAA W-L • 2015-16 NCAA W-L )

8 - Villanova ( 1-1 • 1-1 • 6-0 )
3 - Xavier ( 0-1 • 2-1 • 1-1 )
2 - Butler ( 0-0 • 1-1 • 1-1 )

1 - Creighton ( 1-1 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
1 - Georgetown ( 0-0 • 1-1 • 0-0 )
1 - Providence ( 0-1 • 0-1 • 1-1 )

0 - St. John's ( 0-0 • 0-1 • 0-0 )
0 - Seton Hall ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-1 )
0 - Marquette ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
0 - DePaul ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )

7 - UConn ( 6-0 • 0-0 • 1-1 )
5 - Dayton ( 3-1 • 2-1 • 0-1 )
1 - Saint Louis ( 1-1 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
0 - Richmond ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )


3-Year Total NCAA Tournament Wins -Team ( 2013-14 NCAA W-L • 2014-15 NCAA W-L • 2015-16 NCAA W-L )

8 - Villanova ( 1-1 • 1-1 • 6-0 )
7 - UConn ( 6-0 • 0-0 • 1-1 )
5 - Dayton ( 3-1 • 2-1 • 0-1 )
3 - Xavier ( 0-1 • 2-1 • 1-1 )
2 - Butler ( 0-0 • 1-1 • 1-1 )

1 - Creighton ( 1-1 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
1 - Georgetown ( 0-0 • 1-1 • 0-0 )
1 - Providence ( 0-1 • 0-1 • 1-1 )
1 - Saint Louis ( 1-1 • 0-0 • 0-0 )

0 - St. John's ( 0-0 • 0-1 • 0-0 )
0 - Seton Hall ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-1 )
0 - Marquette ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
0 - DePaul ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )
0 - Richmond ( 0-0 • 0-0 • 0-0 )

Previously I have posted that it is not in the interests of the Big East to expand until there are two candidate schools who:

(1) are an institutional fit and have commonality with the present BE schools (Dayton, Saint Louis, and Richmond)
(2) are apparently willing to join the BE (Dayton, Saint Louis, and Richmond)
(3) improve the quality of BE Men’s Basketball – in terms of strong performances in the regular season and post-season success in the NCAA Tournament (Dayton, UConn)
(4) improve the average attendance of BE home games (Dayton, UConn)
(5) improve the average TV ratings of BE games (Dayton, UConn)

At present, only one school checks all of the boxes.

UConn will not join the BE unless and until it drops scholarshipped football, which is likely a political impossibility considering the very substantial amount of taxpayers' money invested in the Huskies' football program and their facilities in recent years.

Gonzaga would be a good institutional fit for the BE, and their addition would improve the quality of BE Men’s Basketball, but I can’t see the willingness of the university's President to commit all of their student-athletes to so much additional travel (and the very considerable costs associated therewith).

VCU and Wichita State get the job done in Men's Basketball, but realistically, the probability of a 12-school Big East with one state school is close to zero.

The numbers for Saint Louis and Richmond indicate that their addition would dilute the quality of BE Men’s Basketball, lower the average attendance of BE home games, and lower the average TV ratings of BE games in member schools' markets.

If the Big East Conference ever does choose to expand, it will quite likely be Dayton and Saint Louis (as they are the best institutional fits available), but that won’t happen until Saint Louis’ numbers improve the BE averages – not lower them – as is the case at present. At this point, Saint Louis doesn’t ‘check the boxes’, but they might some years down the road.

[Fieldhouse Flyer]

Here are the attendance figures I referred to above, in similar format to the RPI Rankings and Total NCAA Tournament Wins.

3-Year Average Home Game Attendance - Team ( 2013-14 Attendance • 2014-15 Attendance • 2015-16 Attendance )

16,961 - Creighton ( 17,896 • 17,048 • 15,941 )
14,085 - Marquette ( 15,327 • 13,657 • 13,273 )
10,056 - Xavier ( 9,890 • 9,998 • 10,281 )
9,565 - BE Average ( 9,660 • 9,681 • 9,356 )
9,059 - Georgetown ( 8,670 • 9,630 • 8,879 )
8,888 - Providence ( 8,347 • 8,614 • 9,703 )
8,883 - Villanova ( 8,943 • 9,586 • 8,120 )
7,775 - Butler ( 7,788 • 7,373 • 8,165 )
7,231 - Seton Hall ( 6,336 • 7,587 • 7,070 )
6,684 - St. John's ( 7,036 • 7,077 • 6,612 )
6,029 - DePaul ( 6,363 • 6,238 • 5,514 )

12,658 - Dayton ( 12,316 • 12,718 • 12,942 )
10,411 - UConn ( 10,134 • 10,687 • 10,413 )
7,405 - Saint Louis ( 8,428 • 7,032 • 6,757 )
6,045 - Richmond ( 6,102 • 5,599 • 6,435 )


3-Year Average Home Game Attendance - Team ( 2013-14 Attendance • 2014-15 Attendance • 2015-16 Attendance )

16,961 - Creighton ( 17,896 • 17,048 • 15,941 )
14,085 - Marquette ( 15,327 • 13,657 • 13,273 )
12,658 - Dayton ( 12,316 • 12,718 • 12,942 )
10,411 - UConn ( 10,134 • 10,687 • 10,413 )
10,056 - Xavier ( 9,890 • 9,998 • 10,281 )
9,565 - BE Average ( 9,660 • 9,681 • 9,356 )
9,059 - Georgetown ( 8,670 • 9,630 • 8,879 )
8,888 - Providence ( 8,347 • 8,614 • 9,703 )
8,883 - Villanova ( 8,943 • 9,586 • 8,120 )
7,775 - Butler ( 7,788 • 7,373 • 8,165 )
7,405 - Saint Louis ( 8,428 • 7,032 • 6,757 )
7,231 - Seton Hall ( 6,336 • 7,587 • 7,070 )
6,684 - St. John's ( 7,036 • 7,077 • 6,612 )
6,045 - Richmond ( 6,102 • 5,599 • 6,435 )
6,029 - DePaul ( 6,363 • 6,238 • 5,514 )
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Value of College Hoops Teams

Interesting Wall Street Journal article on the value of college basketball teams...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/how-much-is ... 1459459516

Louisville remains college basketball’s most valuable team according to an annual study by Ryan Brewer, an assistant professor of finance at Indiana University-Purdue University Columbus.

Brewer studied 175 of Division I’s 351 teams, accounting for those in major conferences and others that have made the tournament in recent years. Brewer analyzed each program’s revenues and expenses and made cash-flow adjustments, risk assessments and growth projections to calculate what a college team would be worth on the open market, if it could be bought and sold like a professional franchise.


11 – Connecticut ($ 137,900,000)
24 – Dayton ($ 80,600,000)
26 – Xavier ($ 78,100,000)
35 – Marquette ($ 59,600,000)
37 – St. John’s ($ 55,000,000)
51 – DePaul ($ 42,900,000)
52 – Georgetown($ 42,200,000)
54 – Villanova ($ 40,400,000)
73 – Providence ($ 29,700,000)
78 – Creighton ($ 28,100,000)
79 – Seton Hall ($ 27,700,000)
93 – Butler ($ 20,200,000)
96 – Saint Louis ($ 18,600,000)

[Not listed among the 175 universities in Professor Brewer's study: Richmond.]

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More numbers concerning commonality with the Big East:

Big East Conference (Wikipedia) • Atlantic 10 Conference (Wikipedia) • American Athletic Conference (Wikipedia)

The Wikipedia pages linked above have tables showing: Institution Name, Location, Founding Year, Year Joined BE, University Type, Enrolment, and Endowment. I’m posting the Enrolment figures from the linked Tables because Enrolment is a proxy indicator of the number of present and future alumni – many of whom are or will become Big East basketball fans.

Enrolment

23,799 - DePaul University
20,448 - St. John's University
17,858 - Georgetown University
11,852 - BE Average
11,745 - Marquette University
10,735 - Villanova University

9,627 - Seton Hall University
8,236 - Creighton University
6,538 - Xavier University
4,848 - Butler University
4,687 - Providence College

31,119 - University of Connecticut
16,500 - Saint Louis University
10,920 - University of Dayton
4,249 - University of Richmond

Enrolment

31,119 - University of Connecticut
23,799 - DePaul University
20,448 - St. John's University
17,858 - Georgetown University
16,500 - Saint Louis University
11,852 - BE Average
11,745 - Marquette University
10,920 - University of Dayton
10,735 - Villanova University

9,627 - Seton Hall University
8,236 - Creighton University
6,538 - Xavier University
4,848 - Butler University
4,687 - Providence College
4,249 - University of Richmond

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50 Best Catholic Colleges - best-catholic-colleges.com

Welcome to Best-Catholic-Colleges.com, your friendly source of facts about Catholic schools in USA. With our site you will find contact information, majors availability, and diploma selection, as well as nationwide, regional, and state rankings, campus safety ratings, and lists of local competitors for 253 Catholic schools.

Unlike many other sites promoting Catholic schools, our site is not sponsored by any school or college group. This allows us to remain unbiased when analyzing various governmental and independent sources of college data and to provide both positive and negative information about Catholic schools.

2. Georgetown University - Washington, DC - 142 majors
4. DePaul University - Chicago, IL - 164 majors
7. St. John's University - Queens, New York - 186 majors
8. Villanova University - Villanova, PA - 152 majors
9. Marquette University - Milwaukee, WI - 165 majors
10. Saint Louis University - Saint Louis, MO - 166 majors
12. University of Dayton - Dayton, OH - 152 majors
18. Seton Hall University - South Orange, NJ - 123 majors
22. Creighton University - Omaha, NE - 150 majors
24. Gonzaga University - Spokane, WA - 90 majors
28. Xavier University - Cincinnati, OH - 164 majors
40. Providence College - Providence, RI - 118 majors

Xavier’s November blow-out of Dayton in Orlando was the 333rd game between the Flyers and a present Big East team – by far the most of any expansion candidate school.

Dayton’s Opponent – No. of Games Played

Xavier - 159 games
DePaul - 69 games
Marquette - 35 games
Butler - 21 games
Creighton – 10 games
St. John’s – 10 games
Seton Hall – 9 games
Villanova – 9 games
Providence – 8 games
Georgetown – 3 games

If or when the Billikens conclude three consecutive seasons with Top 50 RPI Rankings, Big East expansion may become a possibility, but quite likely not before then. Godspeed to new Saint Louis coach Travis Ford.

[billyjack]

Hi guys,
I approved the long posts by Fieldhouse Flyer, because he put a ton of work into them and in the spirit of goodwill.

Some day, and that day may never come, we will call upon him to do a service for us and/or he might possibly be invited to join us in the Big East. But until that day, consider this justice a gift on our daughter's wedding day** and/or on the morning after our Villanova brothers won the National Championship.

** paraphrased "Godfather" quote, of course

[DudeAnon]

Hi guys,
I approved the long posts by Fieldhouse Flyer, because he put a ton of work into them.

Also consider this a gift on the day of my daughter's wedding/ day after our Villanova brothers win the National Championship.

Really should've waited a few days, we all want to celebrate not rehash this same argument for the 1,000th time

[billyjack]

Hi guys,
I approved the long posts by Fieldhouse Flyer, because he put a ton of work into them.

Also consider this a gift on the day of my daughter's wedding/ day after our Villanova brothers win the National Championship.

Really should've waited a few days, we all want to celebrate not rehash this same argument for the 1,000th time

Yeah, it might have been poor judgment on my part.

I'm just still high off Villanova's win and/or the stuff i smoked last night (joking) in celebration and/or the stuff i snorted off my wife's butt later last night (again, just joking) also in celebration, that I'll approve anything. Really, nothing that anyone could write could get me upset today or probably for the next week or 6 months!

Having said that, I recommend that we just don't respond specifically to the posts, but let him have his say.

[_lh]

UCONN is not in great shape if they get left behind in the AAC. They may find out by this summer that they are left out and have to re-evaluate pursuing big time football. Sunk costs are sunk costs but only idiots continue to throw money at a losing proposition.

It may be a long shot but the long shots are the only ones that make sense for additions. The BE can stay at 10 and be just fine or welcome in a long shot or two if things break that way. There is no need to add anyone else...ever.

[Bill Marsh]

I don't believe for a minute that's what she is talking about. The speculation about UConn is totally out of left field. The university has literally spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade or so to upgrade athletic facilities across the board - in lavish, state-of-the-art practice facilities as well as stadiums, fields, and arenas. Their BOT past a resolution within the past couple of months to open doors to new funding sources that will not tap student tuition as they've done in the past. So, the money train will continue.

The idea that UConn has made this extraordinary investment in athletics only so it can shut down the operation in a few years is turning a blind eye to reality. Cincy has made similar investments in their facilities as have other P5 aspirants. These are not "extremely unlikely" scenarios. They are nonexistent. UConn is never coming back. Neither are BC or Notre Dame, both of which are awash in money.

Their needs to be a reality check on this kind of speculation.

I have no idea what she means, but I can't believe that any competent conference executive would entertain that kind of delusional thinking. If there are no good options, then they will stay at 10, which is fine with me. If Fox demands more content, then they'll have a problem they'll have to deal with.

So you're telling me that if in 10 years UConn is still in the AAC, have not been successful, have not been making bowls, have not been making money, and therefore their overall brand has negatively effected their basketball program they wouldn't think about dropping football?

Everyone knows the only chance of making it into the CFB Playoffs is if you're in a P5 league. If they are still in the AAC in 10 years, the "money train" will NOT continue. You can't be serious with that statement, right? The citizens of Connecticut aren't stupid. After a decade of losing (both money and on the field), they will be demanding a change. If you don't think this is possible, you're totally clueless. Again, I think this is doubtful to happen, but the chances are not "nonexistent." There's just no way you can speak in absolutes like that. The college athletic landscape is going to be changing significantly in the next 10 years- the have's and the have not's. If UConn feels they are in the have-not's, something COULD happen.

Until something crazy happens with an FBS schools happens, I'm content with 10. I don't want to become the A-10 2.0 so taking any of their schools is out of the question in my mind.

Yes, I'm telling you that UConn has a long term vision for itself that is not dependent on short term results in the next decade. They have made a commitment to that vision and they have backed that commitment up with investments. They realize that it may take them a long time to get the program where they want it to be.

I'll give you the example of another program - Louisville.

In 1985, Louisville hired Howard Scnellenberger away from Miami where he had built a dying program into a powerhouse. Louisville had a vision for its program. After several losing seasons, Schellenberger got Louisville into the 1991 Fiesta Bowl where they bear Alabama. That legitimized the program, but it wasn't enough. It took them another quarter century to get into the ACC - 30 years from the time they hired Schnellenberger.

UConn realizes that's the kind of tenacity and the kind of commitment it will take. That's what they're prepared for.

What you don't seem to realize is that this isn't just about sports for UConn. It's about one piece in the puzzle of re-making themselves into a major, national research university. When they studied the path to get there, they identified the fact that the kinds of public research universities that they are emulating and with whom they seek to associate all have major collegiate sports programs as part of the package. So, they will too.

Even where it is about sports, UConn needs a conference which can provide scheduling for its approximately 25 teams. Big East schools typically don't sponsor that broad a range of sports. It's the same problem that Notre Dame faces in an affiliation with the Big East. It's great for us, but the conference is just too limiting for schhools which compete in as many sports as UConn and Notre Dame do.

Your argument based on the intelligence of Connecticut citizens and whether I'm clueless is not a convincing argument since I'm a Connecticut citizen who's close to the UConn program and you are obviously not. With regard to your argument, the result is just the opposite. You set up a straw man and then knock it down. Proves nothing. Your argument is not based on the actual facts of what is going on at UConn. It is based on your conviction that decisions about the future of the program will be based on whether it's making or losing money in the short term (10 years) despite the fact that I just told you in my previous post that they have recently opened up new funding sources, which are not based on tuition. This will be privately funded and will not be a burden on the tax payers.

I will again state flatly that neither UConn nor Notre Dame are ever coming back to the Big East. Never. Waiting for them is a fool's errand.

[Bill Marsh]

UCONN is not in great shape if they get left behind in the AAC. They may find out by this summer that they are left out and have to re-evaluate pursuing big time football. Sunk costs are sunk costs but only idiots continue to throw money at a losing proposition.

It may be a long shot but the long shots are the only ones that make sense for additions. The BE can stay at 10 and be just fine or welcome in a long shot or two if things break that way. There is no need to add anyone else...ever.

Idiots and visionaries.

You really don't understand what UConn's vision is and you should before commenting on what's in their future. I expect that the Big East office has researched this and understands fully what's going on in Storrs. As a result, I don't expect that they're wasting any time on considering this as a future contingency.

UConn wants to be affiliated wth like institutions. That's not The Big East. Similarly the new Big East wants to be affiliated with like institutions as well. That's not UConn.

This kind of discussion is simply a parlor game for college basketball fans. It's not how university presidents think. Nor is it how their Boards and major boosters think either.

[SecureDaBall]

I don't believe for a minute that's what she is talking about. The speculation about UConn is totally out of left field. The university has literally spent hundreds of millions of dollars in the past decade or so to upgrade athletic facilities across the board - in lavish, state-of-the-art practice facilities as well as stadiums, fields, and arenas. Their BOT past a resolution within the past couple of months to open doors to new funding sources that will not tap student tuition as they've done in the past. So, the money train will continue.

The idea that UConn has made this extraordinary investment in athletics only so it can shut down the operation in a few years is turning a blind eye to reality. Cincy has made similar investments in their facilities as have other P5 aspirants. These are not "extremely unlikely" scenarios. They are nonexistent. UConn is never coming back. Neither are BC or Notre Dame, both of which are awash in money.

Their needs to be a reality check on this kind of speculation.

I have no idea what she means, but I can't believe that any competent conference executive would entertain that kind of delusional thinking. If there are no good options, then they will stay at 10, which is fine with me. If Fox demands more content, then they'll have a problem they'll have to deal with.

So you're telling me that if in 10 years UConn is still in the AAC, have not been successful, have not been making bowls, have not been making money, and therefore their overall brand has negatively effected their basketball program they wouldn't think about dropping football?

Everyone knows the only chance of making it into the CFB Playoffs is if you're in a P5 league. If they are still in the AAC in 10 years, the "money train" will NOT continue. You can't be serious with that statement, right? The citizens of Connecticut aren't stupid. After a decade of losing (both money and on the field), they will be demanding a change. If you don't think this is possible, you're totally clueless. Again, I think this is doubtful to happen, but the chances are not "nonexistent." There's just no way you can speak in absolutes like that. The college athletic landscape is going to be changing significantly in the next 10 years- the have's and the have not's. If UConn feels they are in the have-not's, something COULD happen.

Until something crazy happens with an FBS schools happens, I'm content with 10. I don't want to become the A-10 2.0 so taking any of their schools is out of the question in my mind.

Yes, I'm telling you that UConn has a long term vision for itself that is not dependent on short term results in the next decade. They have made a commitment to that vision and they have backed that commitment up with investments. They realize that it may take them a long time to get the program where they want it to be.

I'll give you the example of another program - Louisville.

In 1985, Louisville hired Howard Scnellenberger away from Miami where he had built a dying program into a powerhouse. Louisville had a vision for its program. After several losing seasons, Schellenberger got Louisville into the 1991 Fiesta Bowl where they bear Alabama. That legitimized the program, but it wasn't enough. It took them another quarter century to get into the ACC - 30 years from the time they hired Schnellenberger.

UConn realizes that's the kind of tenacity and the kind of commitment it will take. That's what they're prepared for.

What you don't seem to realize is that this isn't just about sports for UConn. It's about one piece in the puzzle of re-making themselves into a major, national research university. When they studied the path to get there, they identified the fact that the kinds of public research universities that they are emulating and with whom they seek to associate all have major collegiate sports programs as part of the package. So, they will too.

Even where it is about sports, UConn needs a conference which can provide scheduling for its approximately 25 teams. Big East schools typically don't sponsor that broad a range of sports. It's the same problem that Notre Dame faces in an affiliation with the Big East. It's great for us, but the conference is just too limiting for schhools which compete in as many sports as UConn and Notre Dame do.

Your argument based on the intelligence of Connecticut citizens and whether I'm clueless is not a convincing argument since I'm a Connecticut citizen who's close to the UConn program and you are obviously not. With regard to your argument, the result is just the opposite. You set up a straw man and then knock it down. Proves nothing. Your argument is not based on the actual facts of what is going on at UConn. It is based on your conviction that decisions about the future of the program will be based on whether it's making or losing money in the short term (10 years) despite the fact that I just told you in my previous post that they have recently opened up new funding sources, which are not based on tuition. This will be privately funded and will not be a burden on the tax payers.

I will again state flatly that neither UConn nor Notre Dame are ever coming back to the Big East. Never. Waiting for them is a fool's errand.

What is UConn's plan when musical chairs stops and they are left standing? I'm not debating you, this is a genuine question. If 16 teams is the plan for the P5 football conferences, I don't see UConn being left out but hypothetically what if they had no chance at a P5 conference?