Preseason All Big East

[hoyahooligan]

I disagree with my fellow Georgetown fan. Ochefu is definitely 1st team. Yes he stunk the first two years, but he was good last year and is the best returning big man in the BE.

[BigmanU]

Looks like the BEast doesn't feel that strongly about Daniel Ochefu either. I not trying to attack. I'm just calling it like it is.

He is a solid player but 1st team, No.

Also like I previously mentioned, Ryan can't be snubbed on 1st Team because he was POY last year. Dunn should have won it by himself but, if a Nova guard would have been picked Hilliard was better option.

[Westbrook#36]

Looks like the BEast doesn't feel that strongly about Daniel Ochefu either. I not trying to attack. I'm just calling it like it is.

He is a solid player but 1st team, No.

Also like I previously mentioned, Ryan can't be snubbed on 1st Team because he was POY last year. Dunn should have won it by himself but, if a Nova guard would have been picked Hilliard was better option.

No you said it was laughable to call him 1st team, that's what many would call an attack(and in fact is a laughable comment to make). Especially since he's 2nd team and the most obvious 1st team snub. All due respect to Jalen Reynolds, who is a outstanding player with a major ceiling, but Ochefu is the best big man in the BE.

[BigmanU]

Looks like the BEast doesn't feel that strongly about Daniel Ochefu either. I not trying to attack. I'm just calling it like it is.

He is a solid player but 1st team, No.

Also like I previously mentioned, Ryan can't be snubbed on 1st Team because he was POY last year. Dunn should have won it by himself but, if a Nova guard would have been picked Hilliard was better option.

No you said it was laughable to call him 1st team, that's what many would call an attack(and in fact is a laughable comment to make). Especially since he's 2nd team and the most obvious 1st team snub. All due respect to Jalen Reynolds, who is a outstanding player with a major ceiling, but Ochefu is the best big man in the BE.

BEast apparently doesn't think so. We'll just agree to disagree.

He may prove me wrong by the end of the season. If he does, I'll be the 1st in line to tip my hat. Good luck this year except 2 possibly 3 times

[Westbrook#36]

Looks like the BEast doesn't feel that strongly about Daniel Ochefu either. I not trying to attack. I'm just calling it like it is.

He is a solid player but 1st team, No.

Also like I previously mentioned, Ryan can't be snubbed on 1st Team because he was POY last year. Dunn should have won it by himself but, if a Nova guard would have been picked Hilliard was better option.

No you said it was laughable to call him 1st team, that's what many would call an attack(and in fact is a laughable comment to make). Especially since he's 2nd team and the most obvious 1st team snub. All due respect to Jalen Reynolds, who is a outstanding player with a major ceiling, but Ochefu is the best big man in the BE.

BEast apparently doesn't think so. We'll just agree to disagree.

He may prove me wrong by the end of the season. If he does, I'll be the 1st in line to tip my hat. Good luck this year except 2 possibly 3 times

The BE coaches think much much more of him than you do. So, yes we agree to disagree, but then again you disagree with 90% of this board and all the BE coaches in regards to Ochefu.

[BigmanU]

No you said it was laughable to call him 1st team, that's what many would call an attack(and in fact is a laughable comment to make). Especially since he's 2nd team and the most obvious 1st team snub. All due respect to Jalen Reynolds, who is a outstanding player with a major ceiling, but Ochefu is the best big man in the BE.[/quote]

BEast apparently doesn't think so. We'll just agree to disagree.

He may prove me wrong by the end of the season. If he does, I'll be the 1st in line to tip my hat. Good luck this year except 2 possibly 3 times [/quote]

The BE coaches think much much more of him than you do. So, yes we agree to disagree, but then again you disagree with 90% of this board and all the BE coaches in regards to Ochefu.[/quote]

Ochefu's career stat line against the Hoyas (below). Maybe I'm just skewed because he hasn't showed much against us? Pinkston however concerned me.

12-13 (Freshman)
4pts & 2rbs

13-14 (Sophomore)
12pts & 3rbs
5pts & 4rbs

14-15 (Junior)
4pts & 4rbs
0pts & 5rbs

Average 5pts & 3.6rbs

[Westbrook#36]

Ochefu's career stat line against the Hoyas (below). Maybe I'm just skewed because he hasn't showed much against us? Pinkston however concerned me.

12-13 (Freshman)
4pts & 2rbs

13-14 (Sophomore)
12pts & 3rbs
5pts & 4rbs

14-15 (Junior)
4pts & 4rbs
0pts & 5rbs

Average 5pts & 3.6rbs

Using your logic DSR isn't 1st team BE quality. Here's his career average stats against Nova. 11 pts 2 ast 3 reb ... Hardly impressive and he hasn't ever hurt Nova all that much, but no one is dumb enough to dog him or claim he isn't first team BE worthy. Using a player's stats against only one team in a 10 team league to try and prove your point is a really, really, lame.


Excuse me while I string bet here, but I see this and re-raise you what Gumby previously posted earlier in this thread. You can fold your weak hand now.

In what way is having Ochefu on the list "laughable?

I posted this before...I used stats per 40 mins so we weren't comparing apples to oranges. I gave the top player in each category 6 pts, 2nd person got 5, 3=4, down to 6 = 1. So he is the top returning post player in pts per 40, rebs per 40, assts per 40, and FG% per 40 and is 2nd in Blocks. Yeah, he sucks.

PLAYER.........Pts / 40.......Reb / 40 ...........Asst / 40........Blocks / 40.........FG %............PTS.
Ochefu...........15.3.............14.2..................2.5............ 2.3...............0.644.............25
Smith.............21.1.............11.3..................2.3............ 1.4 ..............0.621.............21
Stainbrook.......18.4.............10.3..................3.6.............0.9...............0.613.............18
Delgado..........13.2.............13.9..................1.3.............1.6...............0.555.............14
Fisher............15.0.............. 6.6..................1.2.............3.0...............0.609.............13
DeRosiers........10.7..............7.0...................1.3.............4.0...............0.449.............12

So what's "laughable" about the best returning big man, from the best returning team, being voted onto the first team again?

[stever20]

Raw numbers though show them pretty close....
Ochefu 9.2 ppg 8.5 rpg in 24 minutes
Reynolds 9.9 ppg 6.1 rpg in 20 minutes

I think also something that was considered was that Reynolds is only a Junior while Ochefu is a Senior. That they figure Reynolds will have a bigger jump this year compared to Ochefu.

I think also something that may have come into play was their performance against each other last year in the 3 games-
Reynolds 42 pts 15 reb
Ochefu 20 pts 21 reb

Pretty lopsided there.

Also you have the roles. Ochefu is never going to be a huge cog in Nova's system. Reynolds should get a lot more this year with Xavier with Stainback gone.

[BigmanU]

Ochefu's career stat line against the Hoyas (below). Maybe I'm just skewed because he hasn't showed much against us? Pinkston however concerned me.

12-13 (Freshman)
4pts & 2rbs

13-14 (Sophomore)
12pts & 3rbs
5pts & 4rbs

14-15 (Junior)
4pts & 4rbs
0pts & 5rbs

Average 5pts & 3.6rbs

Using your logic DSR isn't 1st team BE quality. Here's his career average stats against Nova. 11 pts 2 ast 3 reb ... Hardly impressive and he hasn't ever hurt Nova all that much, but no one is dumb enough to dog him or claim he isn't first team BE worthy. Using a player's stats against only one team in a 10 team league to try and prove your point is a really, really, lame.


Excuse me while I string bet here, but I see this and re-raise you what Gumby previously posted earlier in this thread. You can fold your weak hand now.

In what way is having Ochefu on the list "laughable?

I posted this before...I used stats per 40 mins so we weren't comparing apples to oranges. I gave the top player in each category 6 pts, 2nd person got 5, 3=4, down to 6 = 1. So he is the top returning post player in pts per 40, rebs per 40, assts per 40, and FG% per 40 and is 2nd in Blocks. Yeah, he sucks.

PLAYER.........Pts / 40.......Reb / 40 ...........Asst / 40........Blocks / 40.........FG %............PTS.
Ochefu...........15.3.............14.2..................2.5............ 2.3...............0.644.............25
Smith.............21.1.............11.3..................2.3............ 1.4 ..............0.621.............21
Stainbrook.......18.4.............10.3..................3.6.............0.9...............0.613.............18
Delgado..........13.2.............13.9..................1.3.............1.6...............0.555.............14
Fisher............15.0.............. 6.6..................1.2.............3.0...............0.609.............13
DeRosiers........10.7..............7.0...................1.3.............4.0...............0.449.............12

So what's "laughable" about the best returning big man, from the best returning team, being voted onto the first team again?

So your basically telling me DSR which is a guard is on par rebounding with big man Ochefu in their matchups. He also scores 6 points more a game in one on one matchups. You further strengthened my point.

The stats above don't tell the true story. I see Smith (Hoya) is #2 but could not stay on the floor because of foul trouble and conditioning. He was not the 2nd best big in the conference. If those stats were true he would be in the player of the year conversation. You can show me all the advanced stats, algorithms, pie charts you want. Doesn't change anything. He wasn't chosen on the 1st Team period!

I'm pretty sure Delgado will make that Sophomore jump. Freshman Ellenson looks like a beast and Fisher is healthy this year and won't command the double teams like last year. This doesn't even include Reynolds who was actually voted 1st team. I saw flashes last year but want to see more before I go all in. If Reynolds does put it all together the entire year, Watch out.

Good luck and let the games begin

[Westbrook#36]

So your basically telling me DSR which is a guard is on par rebounding with big man Ochefu in their matchups. He also scores 6 points more a game in one on one matchups. You further strengthened my point.

First off, just ignore that DSR has averaged only 11 points and 2 assists a game in his career against Nova, including a huge 2 point game last time we played. Which was the main point of my disingenuous stat cherry picking. See how easy that is? Again, DSR is clearly a 1st team BE selection, not trying to make the argument he isn't, it'd be dumb, about as dumb as arguing Ochefu isn't a worthy of 1st team BE. The point is, it's a disingenuous argument.

Secondly, wow, just wow. Again ... whoosh. The point was using stats against one team while eliminating or ignoring all others is a very poor way of trying to make a point or argument. If you think that somehow strengthens your point you are sadly mistaken. Ochefu hasn't been good against Gtown, but then again it hasn't stopped us from being 4-1 against the Hoyas in his career. Up to this point Ochefu hasn't been a primary focus of our offense, averaging only 4.1 shots a game so far in his career and has been deferring to others and upperclassmen, and still averaged near 10 pts & 9 rebs last year. This year he will be the main inside focus and get at least 12-15 shots a game. At 62.5%(his average the last 2 years), well you can do the math. I'd say that's hardly someone you would call a "laughable" 1st team BE selection. So, we agree to disagree, severely.

Yes, let the games begin, can't wait to see you eat a whole bunch of crow.