CBS Conference Catchup: Big East

[yorost]

Well to be fair i did mention the Mountain West who with a number one RPI shows the highest possible statistical boost. Plus you know how i love statistical challenges I could bore the whole site with a analysis of the RPI and computer statistics in general and show how the smaller the conference the more you are punished.

I will hold off for now as there are plenty of articles out there that explain playing the RPI system. Check SEC boards they are all getting a lesson in it right now.

I will also point out that i am not necessarily a fan of the RPI or any particular computer systems and their overuse in the modern sports world. However people use them so until they get replaced they are what they are.

Did you just ignore my comment?

That's nudging things to the pessimistic side regarding 10. More teams of similar quality is a statistical boost, not a necessary component to landing bids.

You oversell the problem. I didn't say your problem was a phantom.

[Edrick]

Of course 10 teams is where this conference should be. Its better, that's why its the overwhelming preference by the schools.

[BillEsq]

BlueJay...

I missed the Valley as they showed up as a nine team league not a ten my guess is the site had deleted Creighton and not added Loyola. -oversight on my end. I might have also missed another conference or two (Big South Maybe )

However i will include the MVC for analysis. My first point is that modern sports are run by tv scheduling. The MVC for all the good things had next to 0 TV exposure and no major media deal to fulfill. As you pointed out the MVC also benefited by bracketbusters in helping fill the odd conference weekend.

As you appear to concede the smaller conferences provide fewer tourney teams. The MVC is a good example of this 10 teams for a decent basketball conference =1-3 teams. I argue that the quality of the BE is higher and the league could expect 3-4 teams a year. As far as overall quality note this year the Mountain had the number 1 RPI and only got 5 teams in.

To sum up... I missed the MVC on a technicality, and they don't change the synopsis. However if you still prefer 10 teams have at it. Hasn't hurt the Southland any either.

In regards to the rivalry thing... a 12 team conference has every team playing at minimum every other year at the opponents stadium and playing every team at least once a year. Many if not most college rivalries are played in this fashion i do not see how Creighton playing providence 2x a year will lead to the establishment of any major rivalry.

[JohnT]

In regards to the rivalry thing... a 12 team conference has every team playing at minimum every other year at the opponents stadium and playing every team at least once a year. Many if not most college rivalries are played in this fashion i do not see how Creighton playing providence 2x a year will lead to the establishment of any major rivalry.

The advantage of 10 is that the schools get to see schools like GTown and Nova every year in their arena. That is a big plus.

I suspect that there will be added interest this season when Creighton plays at Providence for example because those fans will get to see Doug Mcdermott. If the league were 12, some schools wouldn't see him.

10 is perfect for college hoops but if fox wants 12, 10 won't last long.

[BillEsq]

sorry yorost,

i did not ignore- i misread.

i further apologize for my pessimism. It is quite possible that BE could have a stellar year after year however...as you know i like to play the averages.

[yorost]

Hey, I'm the mathematician here. What you were saying was fine. It's just that you were pushing the numbers a little lower than needed. The average probably won't be 3-4 but around 4 if the conference holds to the computer numbers represented in the last 15 years. Two teams will be a disastrous year, not a year hoping for a pity at large bid (The Pac really dipped for awhile). Of course it can happen, but in the last 15 years I haven't seen evidence there would have ever been question about getting 2 of our 10 in. This year would have been 4 bids most likely, and the computers saw it as a run of the mill season for the 10 (and one of the weakest over the last 6 or so years).

[BillEsq]

lol ok ok i'm out of this fight

1. i'm biased i want SLU in (however i still think 12 without slu is better than 10 without slu)

2. there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a 10 team league. I think its best argument is that it is easy on the fans. Personally i'm a fan of smaller regional leagues. based on it i don't think Slu should be in the big east... or Marquette or Creighton or X... I like round robin and regional I think the east coast teams should be in a east coast league and the midwest teams in a midwest league. Heck months ago on here i wrote about the glory days of the great midwest... small league round robin between slu, marquette, dayton, depaul, cincy... great league.

3. As much as i support the fans i also know that college sports has changed and is changing you cannot recreate the '70s so on that note i think the league has to realize that it needs to build in the current market of mass media- and the value of the NCAA tournament. 12 team conference are better for that. yes if i was put in charge of the NCAA i'd do a lot differently but i'm just calling it as i see it. Since we cannot recreate the '70s, remove the influence of computers on sports rankings, or bring back the era of radio i fully support the BE going to 12 and adding SLU.

4. i'm signing off on this issue... i will continue to speak in non-revs especially where i still retain a 1 year pass for rooting interests. I only spoke on this issue as it dealt specifically with realignment. If the BE stays at 10 i wish you all well. Louisville will be fine, Slu will be fine if not awkwardly located in the A-10, and Bellarmine will be fine with its one Div 1 sport.

[BillEsq]

Hey, I'm the mathematician here. What you were saying was fine. It's just that you were pushing the numbers a little lower than needed. The average probably won't be 3-4 but around 4 if the conference holds to the computer numbers represented in the last 15 years. Two teams will be a disastrous year, not a year hoping for a pity at large bid (The Pac really dipped for awhile). Of course it can happen, but in the last 15 years I haven't seen evidence there would have ever been question about getting 2 of our 10 in. This year would have been 4 bids most likely, and the computers saw it as a run of the mill season for the 10 (and one of the weakest over the last 6 or so years).

I quite agree 2 would be a disastrous year. It was for the PAC and outside of a situation i cannot imagine not one that will likely hit the BE. Especially as the league is without football i think if a perfect storm situation did arise the BE being not blinded by football would respond to it faster that the PAC did. I think 3-4 is fair with four more likely than not. I'll trust your math. Its just tough to jump that 5 barrier. you get a situation where you will likely have 3-4 teams around .500 in conference. The problem with round robins and 18 game schedules is that everyone beats up on everyone. Conference RPI will be set early in OOC tournaments. Once that 18 game schedule starts your at the mercy of how the bottom 3-4 teams did. That is the problem the SEC has, to many conference games, to little OOC games this year they fared disastrously in the OOC tourneys and outside of the typical 300rpi pushover victory set the whole conference to a disaster mode. Oh well its funny when it happens to the SEC, i just don't want to see it happen to the BE. And maybe its pessimistic but its also pessimistic to say that UK will lose a first round NIT game.

Anyways i said i was done and i got rambling again. but i defer to your math, and agree to your reasoning, but i caution in the fickle world college sports perfect storms do happen.

[Bluejay]

As you pointed out the MVC also benefited by bracketbusters in helping fill the odd conference weekend.

Actually, that is not what I said at all.

There are/were no "odd weekends" as all bracketbusters participants played on the SAME weekend. If not for the bracketbusters, the MVC would have simply taken that one week a year where teams were required to play three conference games and made it just like all of the other weeks where they only play two games; the weekend used to house the bracketbusters games would then have been used for that conference game.

I'm not saying 10 is ultimately the best number, but a double round robin does provide for the fairest determination of a conference champion.

[DumpsterFireA10]

lol ok ok i'm out of this fight

1. i'm biased i want SLU in (however i still think 12 without slu is better than 10 without slu)

2. there is nothing wrong with wanting to have a 10 team league. I think its best argument is that it is easy on the fans. Personally i'm a fan of smaller regional leagues. based on it i don't think Slu should be in the big east... or Marquette or Creighton or X... I like round robin and regional I think the east coast teams should be in a east coast league and the midwest teams in a midwest league. Heck months ago on here i wrote about the glory days of the great midwest... small league round robin between slu, marquette, dayton, depaul, cincy... great league.

3. As much as i support the fans i also know that college sports has changed and is changing you cannot recreate the '70s so on that note i think the league has to realize that it needs to build in the current market of mass media- and the value of the NCAA tournament. 12 team conference are better for that. yes if i was put in charge of the NCAA i'd do a lot differently but i'm just calling it as i see it. Since we cannot recreate the '70s, remove the influence of computers on sports rankings, or bring back the era of radio i fully support the BE going to 12 and adding SLU.

4. i'm signing off on this issue... i will continue to speak in non-revs especially where i still retain a 1 year pass for rooting interests. I only spoke on this issue as it dealt specifically with realignment. If the BE stays at 10 i wish you all well. Louisville will be fine, Slu will be fine if not awkwardly located in the A-10, and Bellarmine will be fine with its one Div 1 sport.

That's why this board is here. To debate different points of view. I don't agree with the bolded part.

But if it happens, will have to deal with it.