Time to Drop the "New" From The Big East Article

[stever20]

wait a second. Did you just say the first 3 years of the new big east are at least equal to the last 3 years of the old big east?
old big east 2011-13- first off 2 National Championships(UConn 11, Louisville 13). 4 final 4 teams(UConn 11, Louisville 12,13, Syracuse 13). 28 Tourney teams in the 3 years(60% of teams per year). 2,3,2 in final ken pom.
new big east 2014-16- first off first 2 years 1 sweet 16. 10 tourney teams first 2 years(50% of teams per year). 5,3 first 2 years final ken pom, 3 this year so far.

So how exactly are the first 3 years even REMOTELY close to being equal?

And your last question shows EXACTLY where you are so wrong. You're saying we're an elite, top 3-5 annual league. Well guess what, the old Big east was an elite, top 3 league annually.

[NJRedman]

It has always fascinated me how the (New) Big East seemed to become everyone's scapegoat for conference realignment. Sure, different parties have their own motives: the schools that the C7 left behind, the schools that wanted an invite to join the C7 and didn't get one, and of course ESPN for the Big East deciding to join with Fox. But, it seemed like the overall perception (outside of the parties above) was to be negative towards the Big East, as if this was all their fault. The rivalries that were lost, the teams that were deemed "losers" in the realignment game, etc. When the C7 decided to act, the damage had been done. Major programs had already left the conference for other conferences. If people "needed" to blame some one, it should have been placed on the programs that jumped ship, not on the C7 who were left in an untenable situation and did the best thing they could for their own survival. I know ESPN played a large part in shaping the narrative too. It does seem that the general public's perception is starting to change a bit, and people are allowing themselves to enjoy what the Big East (as it is now) has to offer. Ten like-minded schools, that are focused on basketball, with everyone striving/working towards being competitive on a national level...if you're a college basketball fan, what's not to like?

+1 I distribute fault like this: WVU first followed by Pitt Cuse and ND. Louisville, UConn, Cinci, USF and Rutgers all take some fault for not holding a higher standard for the football schools they accepted only temple was decent for the basketball schools as well. It's funny I have a old Facebook post that came up today from 2011 when WVU announced they'd leave followed by Pitt and Cuse and I predicted the big east schools then (only Dayton over creighton sorry Jays).

Cuse and Pitt announced they were leaving first. Then all the rats started looking to jump ship. UofL and WVU then fought for a spot in the Big XII instead of packaging themselves together because they are short sighted. ND then saw which way the wind was blowing and singed on with the ACC followed by UofL filling the recently departed Marylands shoes in the ACC. UConn was shunned by the ACC and were left holding the bag with Cincy and USF.

[ChelseaFriar]

That original judas made way for a much better jesuit school to come into the big east... not naming names but I'd say this jesuit school was an upgrade over the BC

Ha, fair point. The league did improve as a result.

However, they really started the football flight/money over tradition trend.

BC is not looked upon fondly by most original BE schools.

[MUBoxer]

Who cares if it's new or not? Categorically, the first three years of this configuration are AT LEAST the equal of the three years preceding it. Christ, both Butler and Xavier will probably be in the Top 20 next week. Guess what. The new part that you're defensive about is largely why the metrics look as they do.... Simply, they're performing better than UConn, Syracuse, et al. And teams like St Johns is even balanced by subtracting the garbage like Rutgers. It's an elite, top 3-5 annual league: own it.

Well this certainly isn't true. Sure we've had some good teams but I think you're undervaluing how good the teams in 2011 were. I'll lay it out like this for two years instead of 3 since we don't know how this year plays out. In 2012 the Big east had 9/16 teams a final four with louisville, and two sweet 16 teams with marquette and Cincinnati. In 2013 the Big East had 8/15 a champion in Louisville, Final Four in Cuse and Elite 8 in Marquette. I'm not saying that the New Big East isn't great but lets not pretend that it is equal to the years preceding it plus seeing as the third year preceding it the Big east went 11/16 with a sweet 16 from Marquette and a Champion in UCONN I doubt this year will match that either.

[Edrick]

No, I'm not. Here are the numbers:

09 #4 (83.39)
10 #3 (82.29)
11 #1 (84.76)
12 #3 (82.12)
13 #2 (82.70)
14 #5 (80.63)
15 #2 (82.87)
16 #3 (82.50)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sa ... onference/

- 2011 was an outlier. I treated it as such, just like I'd treat something like the MVC's 2006 as an outlier that didn't speak to anything other than that season itself. You can go back much further to keep looking, but generally we throw those obvious outliers out when talking about trends like that. The Big East is more or less what it has been for a decade in aggregate

[stever20]

No, I'm not. Here are the numbers:

09 #4 (83.39)
10 #3 (82.29)
11 #1 (84.76)
12 #3 (82.12)
13 #2 (82.70)
14 #5 (80.63)
15 #2 (82.87)
16 #3 (82.50)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sa ... onference/

- 2011 was an outlier. I treated it as such, just like I'd treat something like the MVC's 2006 as an outlier that didn't speak to anything other than that season itself. You can go back much further to keep looking, but generally we throw those obvious outliers out when talking about trends like that. The Big East is more or less what it has been for a decade in aggregate

So 5/2/3= 10 or 3.33 avg is better than 1/3/2 or 2 avg? RiGGHTTT.......
or just look at the average ratings...
11-13 83.19
14-16 82.00

Or the fact that 11-13 had 2 national champions and 4 final 4 teams. How many has been in 14-16?

EVEN if you take out 11, 12/13 avg rating is 82.41, or .41 better than 14-16. But still with a national champion and 3 final 4 teams.

[MUBoxer]

No, I'm not. Here are the numbers:

09 #4 (83.39)
10 #3 (82.29)
11 #1 (84.76)
12 #3 (82.12)
13 #2 (82.70)
14 #5 (80.63)
15 #2 (82.87)
16 #3 (82.50)

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/ncaab/sa ... onference/

- 2011 was an outlier. I treated it as such, just like I'd treat something like the MVC's 2006 as an outlier that didn't speak to anything other than that season itself. You can go back much further to keep looking, but generally we throw those obvious outliers out when talking about trends like that. The Big East is more or less what it has been for a decade in aggregate

I'm fairly certain that when it comes to perception of a conference random fans aren't gonna be like "man this new big east is on the same level based on sagarian ratings I've gotta watch that Nova game" the bottom line is in order to add fans you need tournament success. Tournament success like Marqeutte Xavier Butler Nova and Georgetown were having prior to this conference. If, in the tournament, we start looking like we all had in the old conferences then this conference won't have a problem with perception.

[Edrick]

I wasn't arguing what some idiot's perception is, I was stating what is. Those things can be utterly different. Electricity existed before it was discovered. The fact and the discovery are just the span of ignorance. I do not deny there are ignorant people, this forum is a constant reminder of that.

[stever20]

I think there's a 2 part thing to this....
1st off- the conference. I do not think any basketball person would say the current big east is equal to what the old big east was last 3 years.... 2 titles, 4 final 4's, etc.

2nd off- the teams currently in the conference. I went into Ken Pom, and calculated all 10 team's avg rank for the last 6 years- but in segments of 3 years.
format is
team name/16-14 rank/13-11 rank/diff
Providence/42.67/92.33/49.67
Villanova/7.00/54.67/47.67
Xavier/31.67/54.67/23.00
Butler/50.33/60.67/10.33
DePaul/165.33/170.67/5.33
St John's/99.67/99.00/-.67
Creighton/55.33/49.00/-6.33
Seton Hall/92.67/77.67/-15
Georgetown/39.33/21.33/-18
Marquette/90.67/24.00/-66.67
for the league as a whole- 67.47/70.40/2.93

So for the 10 teams in the league as a whole, it's pretty comparable- actually a smidge better. Had Marquette crater, but that's balanced by PC and Nova doing much better than before.